[BBC News] Man charged over indecent images

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Easy really. I think some of the condition is down to power, maybe alienation, certainly social detachment or an inability to form adult relationships on equal terms with another adult. It is however above all else a sexual complusion, and by castrating you remove that element which has to be a substantial motivating part of the problem to start with.

 

Personally though whilst making these comments I have to say that I don't really care. I think they are disgusting scum of the earth people who have no right to live in society with the rest of us, and that's about it really. These people are animals and you can't rehabilitate a lion or a shark to stop them killing so I don't see why society should waste money trying to analyse these people. If a dog attacks once you put it down because its a dog and it will just do it again.

 

But paedophiliacs are not dogs, lions, or sharks, though I can appreciate how much easier it is for you to perceive them as the same as animals. If they really have had some episode or circumstance whilst growing up that has led to their sexual desires I do not think they are scum of the earth for having such desires but I certainly do not think society should ignore analysing the causes, the cost is too great. If we went along with the punishment of castration then what we are doing is stopping one paedophile, but what about the next person who grows up to be one? I mean I am not saying that somehow there will be some interventionary force that will rid society of paedophiles once we know where such sexual desires originates but think it better to understand this and work from there. The only other alternative for prevention is putting the onus on the child to be more vigilant, which I think is feasible. I do think children should be given a more thorough sexual education earlier than they are. Even so, I feel it is still wrong to completely lay the responsibility for prevention on the child.

[hboy]

The only other alternative for prevention is putting the onus on the child to be more vigilant, which I think is feasible. I do think children should be given a more thorough sexual education earlier than they are. Even so, I feel it is still wrong to completely lay the responsibility for prevention on the child.

 

This has to be the only viable option. Most paedophiles are only found out after the event therefore your stance of understanding confuses me as the damage invariably has already been done - yes we can learn from it but I doubt we ever can learn much to prevent future crimes. However, downloading images as in the case at the start of this thread is probably the entry point for many where they could actually be caught before a physical crime has been committed and maybe monitored or assessed which might stop future crimes; although technically a crime has already been committed purely through creating the image and if there was no demand from perverts to view such images that would stop many of the problems in their tracks.

 

In terms of educating kids if you go back to Grims fairytails its full of warnings regarding kiddy fiddlers hiding in forests etc, we've always educated kids about the dangers posed by dangerous social deviants.

 

As for me as a parent I really have no problem with the animal comparison.

[Pragmatopian]

Accessing child pornography is a serious offence, but rather different in character from the direct physical or sexual abuse of a child, which ranks among the most morally repugnant of all crimes.

 

Without demand, there is no need for supply.

 

Certainly that's primarily why its such a serious offence. However, I would argue that generally it falls short of acting as an accomplice (i.e. 'aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring') to child sex abuse, otherwise (e.g. if the 'consumer' is sufficiently proximate in their connection to the event) the individual should be charged as an accomplice to the principal offences.

 

I'd also argue that, regardless of whether there were 'consumers' of such material it would still be produced, as its not driven purely on an economic basis. I'd be interested to know if it's production is even primarily driven by economic factors. This isn't the same as the production of illegal drugs, which would collapse completely in the absence of demand. The recording and publicising of deviant acts are common extended features of deviant acts themselves, carrying their own (non-monetary) reward for the deviant.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

This has to be the only viable option. Most paedophiles are only found out after the event therefore your stance of understanding confuses me as the damage invariably has already been done - yes we can learn from it but I doubt we ever can learn much to prevent future crimes. However, downloading images as in the case at the start of this thread is probably the entry point for many where they could actually be caught before a physical crime has been committed and maybe monitored or assessed which might stop future crimes; although technically a crime has already been committed purely through creating the image and if there was no demand from perverts to view such images that would stop many of the problems in their tracks.

 

In terms of educating kids if you go back to Grims fairytails its full of warnings regarding kiddy fiddlers hiding in forests etc, we've always educated kids about the dangers posed by dangerous social deviants.

 

As for me as a parent I really have no problem with the animal comparison.

 

Well that is what I am getting at, if little can be learned to prevent future crimes then that is that. But you don't hear about there ever being much trying to determine where it comes from. If it is a personality disorder or something 'anti-social' developed through growing up that relates to ideas of power then maybe that is something to investigate and challenge when a person is caught.

 

We may have Grims fairytales but we are not very good at protecting our children from social deviants as you call them. In fact, I believe that society is at fault for in the way it actually leaves children completely unprotected and vulnerable to these people. Most paedophilia is perpetrated by members of the childs family, not strangers. And children are not taught enough about sex early on to recognise what it is and what is right and what is wrong. If a child has the knowledge to understand very quickly what is going on in such a situation it may go a long way to serving as a tool to protect them by informing others of what is going on.

 

(edited because parts didn't make sense)

[theman]

This has to be the only viable option. Most paedophiles are only found out after the event therefore your stance of understanding confuses me as the damage invariably has already been done - yes we can learn from it but I doubt we ever can learn much to prevent future crimes. However, downloading images as in the case at the start of this thread is probably the entry point for many where they could actually be caught before a physical crime has been committed and maybe monitored or assessed which might stop future crimes; although technically a crime has already been committed purely through creating the image and if there was no demand from perverts to view such images that would stop many of the problems in their tracks.

 

In terms of educating kids if you go back to Grims fairytails its full of warnings regarding kiddy fiddlers hiding in forests etc, we've always educated kids about the dangers posed by dangerous social deviants.

 

As for me as a parent I really have no problem with the animal comparison.

 

Well that is what I am getting at, if little can be learned to prevent future crimes then that is that. But you don't hear about there ever being much trying to determine where it comes from. If it is a personality disorder or something 'anti-social' developed through growing up that relates to ideas of power then maybe that is something to investigate and challenge when a person is caught.

 

You may have Grims fairytales but we are very fair for protecting our children from social deviants as you call them. In fact, I believe that society is at fault for in the way it actually leaves children completely unprotected and vulnerable to these people. Most paedophilia is perpetrated by members of the childs family, not strangers. And children are not taught enough about sex early on to recognise what it is and what is right and what is wrong. If a child has the knowledge to understand very quickly what is going on in such a situation it may go a long way to serving as a tool to protect them by informing others of what is going on.

you cheese eating surrender monkey. i dont bother readin your post's you talk poo

[hboy]

(edited because parts didn't make sense)

 

Why single that particular post out?

[Augustus]

I fully agree that we (the taxpayers) should fund extensive counselling, psychiatric rehabilitation, cognitive behavioural therapy, games therapy, anti-psychotic medication therapy, social inquiry into each offender's personal history ... but only after they have had their evil sex drive removed permanently. Whether chemically or physically, I personally couldn't care less, although favouring the latter over the former. Let's put the retribution back into criminal sentencing, eh?

 

I am also in favour of having the nonce jotter open for public inspection, so citizens are able to make informed decisions about where to reside, to which school to send their kids, whether friendly Uncle Alf who lives opposite is really just a friendly old boy, or a kiddy-fiddler from years back.

 

Did you know that Blackpool has something like 800 convicted sex offenders living within its area? A place with one of the U.K.'s highest levels of unemployment, transient population, urban decay. They go and live there from the length and breadth of the U.K., so that they can escape the communities in which they grew up and in which they plied their nasty little proclivities. It would be foolish to assume that there aren't some such people here in the Isle of Man, not to mention the homegrown variety.

 

If we have to weigh up people's rights, then my vote is for the victims every time.

[oldmanxfella]

I am also in favour of having the nonce jotter open for public inspection, so citizens are able to make informed decisions about where to reside, to which school to send their kids

 

Well it ain't going to happen here:

 

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Paedophile-...-not.3821766.jp

 

Did you know that Blackpool has something like 800 convicted sex offenders living within its area? A place with one of the U.K.'s highest levels of unemployment, transient population, urban decay. They go and live there from the length and breadth of the U.K., so that they can escape the communities in which they grew up and in which they plied their nasty little proclivities. It would be foolish to assume that there aren't some such people here in the Isle of Man, not to mention the homegrown variety.

 

I'd be surprised at the figure of 30 quoted for the IOM in the above report.

 

Edited: By surprised I'd say that this looks quite low.

[P.K.]

I'd be surprised at the figure of 30 quoted for the IOM in the above report.

 

Edited: By surprised I'd say that this looks quite low.

There are thirty on the register i.e. they're the ones they know about...

[alibaba]

Just a quick diversion on the 'if there was no demand people wouldn't make this shit' point.

 

Is there really any demand for this?

 

It still got made...

[Gladys]

Not sure that physical castration would achieve the reduction in libido to render paedophiles 'safe'. An old friend of mine had a boyfriend who, through testicular cancer, had been castrated. His libido remained in tact, even though the glands producing the testosterone were absent.

 

Similarly, I remember taking a dog with a penchant for humping visitors' legs to the vet to see whether castration would cure him. The vet said it could not be guaranteed as the dog had a memory of the act.

 

It would seem that there is more going on than just the effect of testosterone. Perhaps there are other chemicals produced which, when accompanying some kind of pyschological imbalance, create the paedophile, rapist or other sexual deviant behaviour (and by sexual deviant I don't mean sexual variants), so chemical castration may be the only possible 'cure'.

 

You also have to look at theories such as Maslov's hierarchy of needs and somebody else's hygiene factors which seek to explain human motivation. Basically, they argue that there is a layering of aspirations ranging from the basic needs for food, shelter and procreation to the more egotistical needs such as recognition, admiration etc. and that once one level is satisfied human behaviour is to aim for the next layer; the more basic layers are satisfied by a more co-operative and altruistic behaviour (hence the early social structures) but as the basic needs are met, co-operation becomes less attractive as the higher needs are more self-serving. If you extrapolate that to societal behaviour, you have an argument that the more widespread the satisfaction of the basic needs, then there is a greater tendancy for the more selfish and, ultimately, more deviant behaviour.

 

'Tis only a theory, but it ticks a few boxes.

[Pig Destroyer]

hahaha, 1:42 to 1:48 is so tense.

[Silentbob]

Years ago, a friend of mine ordered some pornography off the internet, just normal run of the mill tits and arse....it never arrived.

 

he complained, so they resent the order.....it never arrived.

 

He complained again, this time the company, worried about not receiving any more business, resent the order with and extra dvd including - how can I put this - non human content.

 

This time, the package arrived, but with a customs and police escort.

 

Customs had grabbed the initial order (manx based customs) but not informed the recipient, and the second, not that either order had contained anything illegal as such (other than standard hardcore porn that they deemed was too strong for his eyes). The 3rd consignment - containing the extra features - was not asked for, yet was used to add this person to the sex offenders register.

 

He was basically bullied into signing it, and out of misplaced shame (no shame in a bit of tits and arse) he has left the Island. At the time (after we had stopped laughing at him) we tried to tell him that, without any evidence that he had ordered that type of pornography, that the Police had no grounds to force him to do anything; alas he did not want to risk his name in the paper and gave in to their threats.

 

Not anything to do with the news story, and if guilty, I mean really guilty, this person should be punished to the full extent of the law. But, people can be scared by authorities into admitting all sorts of things, even when innocent.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

(edited because parts didn't make sense)

 

Why single that particular post out?

 

Because it is only you who has trouble understanding the theorising behind the others, but we can run through the ABCs later in private sometime.

 

I fully agree that we (the taxpayers) should fund extensive counselling, psychiatric rehabilitation, cognitive behavioural therapy, games therapy, anti-psychotic medication therapy, social inquiry into each offender's personal history ... but only after they have had their evil sex drive removed permanently. Whether chemically or physically, I personally couldn't care less, although favouring the latter over the former. Let's put the retribution back into criminal sentencing, eh?

 

Retributive sentencing? Would that be possible with paedophilic crimes? But no, I don't agree with it.

Taxpayers money? It costs thousands upon thousands to lock people up. And I am not talking about medication or social inquiry. Just curious as to whether paedophilia and rape can be responded to by also eliminating the reasons behind it. Maybe this is not feasible but just curious about prevention rather than when it is too late.

 

Did you know that Blackpool has something like 800 convicted sex offenders living within its area? A place with one of the U.K.'s highest levels of unemployment, transient population, urban decay. They go and live there from the length and breadth of the U.K., so that they can escape the communities in which they grew up and in which they plied their nasty little proclivities. It would be foolish to assume that there aren't some such people here in the Isle of Man, not to mention the homegrown variety.

 

What are you saying, Blackpool is some sort of mecca to paedophiles to come there to get some respite?

 

If you extrapolate that to societal behaviour, you have an argument that the more widespread the satisfaction of the basic needs, then there is a greater tendancy for the more selfish and, ultimately, more deviant behaviour.

'Tis only a theory, but it ticks a few boxes.

 

Do you think it is driven just by selfishness and the need to be deviant? Well the majority of us all carry out selfish acts, very often in fact, but not paedophilia or rape.

[%age]

Gary Glitter or Michael Jackson - which one is worse?