Stavros Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Prince's apology genuine, says PM http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7823404.stm The prince was captured on film calling fellow cadet Ahmed Raza Khan a "Paki". Gordon Brown told GMTV he believed his apology was genuine. Back in 2002, a minor diplomatic storm blew up when US president, George Bush, used the word, although unaware of its offensive connotations. The episode forced an intervention from a White House spokesman who said Mr Bush had "great respect for Pakistan, the Pakistani people and the Pakistani culture". It would appear that if you use the word like any other words in a derogatory manner then it is a 'Hate Word' Checking on this, from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6740445.stm Young Pakistanis are increasingly using the word to associate and differentiate. Zak, a 17-year old from Leyton, east London, says he and his friends think nothing of calling each other, "My Paki brother". "Paki is just a short-form of Pakistani," continues Talha, 16. Similarly if you call someone a 'Brit' you're referring to the fact that they are British, an 'Aussie' is an Australian and so on. Non of these are deemed offensive but presumably they could become offensive if they were being used in a derogatory manner. Rod Richards, who served as a Foreign Office minister in former prime minister John Major's Conservative government and also as an officer in the Royal Marines, defended the prince on the Today programme. He said he regarded "Paki as an abbreviation" and the prince, in his mind, had "not crossed the line". Welshman Mr Richards added that he was frequently called "Taffy" in the Army So if the word has been used in the past in a derogatory way but isn't used in that way anymore but is used merely to state someoness place of origin, should it still be viewed as a 'Hate Word'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don fugazi Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think we have the National Front to blame for this even being thought of as derogatory. It's an abbreviation just the same as "Brit" (which I find annoying rather than offensive) but I avoid using it because I've only ever heard it used derogatively by white people. Some Pakistani friends use it self-referentially in a joking manner but more often use "desi". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 So if the word has been used in the past in a derogatory way but isn't used in that way anymore but is used merely to state someoness place of origin, should it still be viewed as a 'Hate Word'? Only if Bernard Manning is resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Context is everything - people with a bureaucratic mind hate context. Paki WAS AND IS used as an insult against Pakistani immigrants - usually with an obsenity prefixing it. In some cases its not used as an insult and is used to self identify as in the examples above about "Paki brothers". And then there is the middle ground where its usage is subject to interpretation. The politically correct mob tend to over interpret which is definitely a bad thing. But I've never called someone a Paki and wouldn't want to - its too loaded a term and unless I know the person intimately could be too easily seen as being rude. Bluntly I think its impossible for a non-Pakistani descentent to use this word without the risk of problems. It was simply impossible for Harry to know if the "officer cadet" concerned was happy to be so named, or was just accepting it due to the social environment he was in. I do think concious raising is important when people get lazy with language - calling someone a Paki does have derogratory undertones. That said though the most Harry should be "punished" is to be told to be more aware of the racist history of the word, to be more polite, and not to let stereotypes be reinforced by sloppy language. Newspaper headlines, and the Today program just show how excessively these issues are being viewed. There are far more important ways of showing we do not have double standards over different racial and cultural groups than upbraiding a Prince using this word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It's historically offensive apparently, because of how it's been used in the past. If he's really from Pakistan and not just that whole region, I don't see how it can be offensive at all. Surely the intent is more important than the actual use of the word. He wasing saying it in an insulting way. Daft, time to move on. I though this was yet another rossgate style fuss over nothing though, once again nobody complained until the paper drew attention to the subject. I also enjoyed how 'pakkie' was deeply offensive, yet 'raghead' was almost an afterthought in the taking offence chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If the gutter press wish to explore racial hatred, they might better be employed looking at Israel/Hamas, Darfur, Congo and a few other places. Get a fucking life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jampton Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have known the term "Paki" to have been around for over 40 years as a general abbrieviation for an Asian. "Brit" is fairly new here by comparison, that came from the Yanks but we have readily adopted it. We still get the wonderful UK tabloids referring to "Frogs" and "Krauts" which does not raise a murmer of protest. It seems to me the English are the only race who are not that bothered if you call them names. Except "Comeover" of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'd say that in this context linguistically Paki is closer to Pom than Brit - the Aussie's use of Wingeing Pom has entered the subconcious. But the Pakistani community has had to put up with actual and institutional racism orders of magnitude worse than any Pom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 But the Pakistani community has had to put up with actual and institutional racism orders of magnitude worse than any Pom! I would agree with that statement. I happened to look up names for British and pom was: From British Naval records the term "Pommie" came about from the red "pom-pon" on the top of the hats of British sailors who were involved in the transfer of prisoners to the Colonies. It was used as a derogatory term, but has since become a generalised term for English people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 From British Naval records the term "Pommie" came about from the red "pom-pon" on the top of the hats of British sailors who were involved in the transfer of prisoners to the Colonies. It was used as a derogatory term, but has since become a generalised term for English people. Is that not the solution? Make such things generalized and they stop being offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Is that not the solution? Make such things generalized and they stop being offensive? Does it depend on the people that actually find it offensive because the more I look at it the more I realise that it's non-asian people that seem to find it a more unacceptable phrase than asian people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Stavros do you have anything more than subjective anecdote to say that Pakistanis are less concerned about been called Pakis (by non Pakistanis) than "non asians"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 The point is that it's not just people from Pakistan that are called 'Paki' Many different asian people get called 'Paki' and even some darker skinned non-asian people too. Pakistan is one of the asian countries and your point (by non Pakistanis) than "non asians"? is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 What a load of bollocks, by that definition you cannot call a Scotsman Jock, a Welshman Taff, an Australian Aussie etc, the term Paki is an abreviation of the word Pakistani and can only be classed as racist if used as an insulting comment, a good example is a shop in Bolton Lancs that was told to change its name from Daubhill Paki Shop even tough the owner was Pakistani the political correct lynch mob deemed he was being racist against himself, I wish these people would get fucking life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 What a load of bollocks, by that definition you cannot call a Scotsman Jock, a Welshman Taff, an Australian Aussie etc, the term Paki is an abreviation of the word Pakistani and can only be classed as racist if used as an insulting comment, a good example is a shop in Bolton Lancs that was told to change its name from Daubhill Paki Shop even tough the owner was Pakistani the political correct lynch mob deemed he was being racist against himself, I wish these people would get fucking life. It is plainly obvious that Paki is an abbreviation but the word has seemingly always been used as a term of insult and oppression. It may be a word that is adopted by the Pakistani community but this is the same as nigger. It is quite alright for pakistani or black people to use such terms to each other but a very different matter for a white person to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.