The 'p-word'

[Stavros]

You missed your chance, you should have replied with "I'm from Germany so please don't call me a Kraut!"

[Amadeus]

Pah - you can call me a Kraut as many times as you want - doesn't bother me, you Gyros

[spanna]

Didnt he say "my paki friend". ?

oooh boohooo . ffttt.

 

Just think if he had used paki in a insulting way. The Daily mail and the do-gooders would have been calling for a new Cromwell or something.

 

The woman on bbc news this morning summed it up nicely.

Anyone insulted by Harry saying "my Paki friend" is obviously stupid.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I concur, its all in the context, any word can be insultive if said in an insultive manner.. look at the paper calling the French "frogs" for how many years.

You missed your chance, you should have replied with "I'm from Germany so please don't call me a Kraut!"

I hope nobody calls me Manxie just because I'm from the Isle of Man, now that would be offensive.

 

But these are not about the colour of your skin but about your nationality. The word Paki doesn't strictly denote Pakistani. It is a racist term based on the appearance of people from the Indian subcontinent.

 

The word Paki and raghead is racist and that's regardless of where it is placed in a sentence and why it is said but yes this furore over HIM saying it is nothing more than a headline grabber because it is all about the nation's prince. I don't give two shits about his life.

But obviously people have been offended by the use of this term and I can understand why. If you are Pakistani and hear about some arse who is supposed to be a figurehead of sorts for the country you live in use a racist term that has been used against you then I could see it as being hurtful. People expect more than to have such people use terms which are racist, regardless of what the context is and how it is used.

 

If such terms and language are used in the forces then that is sad, just as much as it is were anyone to be racist. It doesn't matter how much comradery there is, racism is racism and is unacceptable.

 

But what is he said "My little nigger friend" or "my little chinky friend", etc.?

 

Though there have been some stupid comments made since:

 

"John Hutton told the Commons: "We should not lose sight of one very important fact in all this, that Prince Harry has served his country on active service in Afghanistan and I believe very strongly that there is no better example of public service than that." - so the best way to serve your community and fellow people is to join the services? Wrong.

 

"... the British people are good enough to give someone who has actually been a role model for young people and who has done well fighting for our country... the benefit of the doubt," Mr Brown said." - I can't think of anything that has stuck in my head that shows him to be a role model.

 

"Welshman Mr Richards added that he was frequently called "Taffy" in the Army, and even in the House of Commons a colleague used to make references to him "having sexual relations with sheep". - it is just not the same as using a RACIST term relating to the colour of one's skin, not because of their nationality.

 

But just as bad are the ridiculous comments about how this might undermine people from ethnic minorities from joining the service. If it did I wish Prince Harry would develop tourettes but I don't think those committed enough to want to go into the services would be put off. And as for apologising to the Pakistani Army and Government, I know it was the father who wanted this but it is a bit silly.

[thesultanofsheight]

The word Paki and raghead is racist and that's regardless of where it is placed in a sentence and why it is said but yes this furore over HIM saying it is nothing more than a headline grabber because it is all about the nation's prince. I don't give two shits about his life.

 

I don't think you are qualified to say what is and what is not racist. Maybe any non causasian members of these boards might post their views as that would interest me - but personally I'm sick of poor little left wing white kids telling me what is and what is not racist when frankly they are not qualified to comment one way or the other.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The word Paki and raghead is racist and that's regardless of where it is placed in a sentence and why it is said but yes this furore over HIM saying it is nothing more than a headline grabber because it is all about the nation's prince. I don't give two shits about his life.

 

I don't think you are qualified to say what is and what is not racist. Maybe any non causasian members of these boards might post their views as that would interest me - but personally I'm sick of poor little left wing white kids telling me what is and what is not racist when frankly they are not qualified to comment one way or the other.

 

Really? I think I am, and I think those people who do actually have even a basic understanding of forms of oppression are qualified to say so too.

 

I find it genuinely quite amazing how anyone cannot recognise that the word Paki or raghead is racist. I know the Island is sheltered and the population almost wholly white but ffs. Does it not seem absolutely apparent why these terms are used and how they have been used in the past?

 

If it really is so difficult for people to recognise what is racist and what is not then it shows just how far society has to come to wake itself up to the reality of racism.

Do you really need someone Indian or Pakistani to testify whether it is racist or not? Well you have the father of the son who was called a Paki so is that enough or do you need to have a whole bunch of Pakis to shout and moan about it?

 

When people whinge and moan about 'being told what to do' in respect of something to do with oppressive language or behaviour it only comes across to me as an expression of a ridiculous mindset where someone thinks that their values and ways of thinking are being unjustifiably attacked. No, they are being justifiably held to account.

I don't need a Pakistani or Indian person to testify on here no more than a woman need be involved were this an issue about sexism or a gay person needed in an instance of homophobia. What is needed, all that is needed is some recognise of what oppressive behaviour is.

[thesultanofsheight]

When people whinge and moan about 'being told what to do' in respect of something to do with oppressive language or behaviour it only comes across to me as an expression of a ridiculous mindset where someone thinks that their values and ways of thinking are being unjustifiably attacked. No, they are being justifiably held to account.

I don't need a Pakistani or Indian person to testify on here no more than a woman need be involved were this an issue about sexism or a gay person needed in an instance of homophobia. What is needed, all that is needed is some recognise of what oppressive behaviour is.

 

Fuck off who cares what you think.

[WTF]

i watched chris rock the other night and nigger was said more than the entire series of roots. it seems ( depending on who you are ) that you can call a spade a spade or whatever. it is all about the context of the words used rather than the word itself. where would gangsta rap be without nigger? the snag is the PC brigade concentrate on the actual word ( unless it's royalty ) rather than the context ( unlike the mook on big brother last year refering to charlie ) and also miss piggy ( jade goody ) called shitty shilpa a paki and got ousted. but it was said in a totally different context ( venomously ) compared to the dippy nblond calling vcharlie a nigger, but both got emptied. there are plenty of films where racist terms slip through the net. smokey and the bandit 'coon dog' one of the old black and white war films where the black lab was called nigger. we even see locals refering to 'manxies' is that racist?? is it fook.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

i watched chris rock the other night and nigger was said more than the entire series of roots. it seems ( depending on who you are ) that you can call a spade a spade or whatever. it is all about the context of the words used rather than the word itself. where would gangsta rap be without nigger? the snag is the PC brigade concentrate on the actual word ( unless it's royalty ) rather than the context ( unlike the mook on big brother last year refering to charlie ) and also miss piggy ( jade goody ) called shitty shilpa a paki and got ousted. but it was said in a totally different context ( venomously ) compared to the dippy nblond calling vcharlie a nigger, but both got emptied. there are plenty of films where racist terms slip through the net. smokey and the bandit 'coon dog' one of the old black and white war films where the black lab was called nigger. we even see locals refering to 'manxies' is that racist?? is it fook.

 

The modern use of the term nigger has been appropriated into urban black culture just as queer has been largely brough into gay culture. Nevetheless, some gay people find it offensive that other gay people use the term and a lot of black people find it offensive that others use that term too. Though if a white or heterosexual person used the term nigger or queer it would still be racist or homophobic.

 

Calling someone a Manxie is just a recognition of what nation they are from and it is not a term that you or I have ever heard as a term of abuse that is recognised by everyone on the Island.

 

But yes, I think you are right. Political correctness is often taken to ridiculous levels. It is a good thing but you hear so many stupid things about what needs to change. I remember hearing that people of mixed background or whatever term you wish to use (as they are plenty) were not to be called "dual heritage". How contrived and ridiculous is that?

[Cret]

I find it genuinely quite amazing how anyone cannot recognise that the word Paki or raghead is racist.

 

But that's the whole point. To many (most?) people these days, it simply isn't, because it is seen in the context of just being an abbreviation. Yes there are some poeple that see it differently but you've stated that it SHOULD be a racist word and it should not be. No word ultimately SHOULD be racist - it sounds like you are trying to perpetuate such bad ideals, although I am not accusing you of that of course.

 

Yes of course we all know & understand history of these things but they are not the issue in general.

 

I understand completely that these words CAN be racist but it doesn't mean that they necessarily are. I don't see why you can't understand that context/intent is the most important thing here.

 

Example 1:

A BNP racist skinhead thug that hates non-caucasians. He doesn't say the word Paki because despite the fact he hates other races for no reason other than the fact he's been brainwashed to believe it (or whatever), he realises using words like that will bring more scrutiny upon himself.

 

Example 2:

Prince Harry (for want of anyone that could be exactly the same) who has a good friend of pakistani origin, refers to him as 'my Paki friend' because it's easier just to say that. Does his mate mind? Unlikely - so what business is it of yours to say he can't say that? He's called him this because #1 he's a friend, and #2 he's "Paki(stani)". That's all there is to it. It was between them until someone made a private thing public that can easily be taken out of context.

According to you he's a racist, yet surely in all likeliness he would not really have friends of other race, and yet he does indeed appear to.

 

Most sane people know when it may or may not be appropriate to use a certain word, I am not going to run down strand street tomorrow shouting "Paki paki paki paki" at the top of my lungs as I know there are some who will take it the wrong way (in fact I think most people would if you did that actually), but I know that simply uttering a specific word does not a racist make.

It's like claiming anyone that says abracadabra is a real life wizard for god's sake.

 

When I used to live in Huddersfield I used to have a pakistani mate who used to call ME things like "you dirty Paki" etc. Why? because he wasn't a PC do-gooder and had a sense of humour and was a good lad. He knew that as mates, those of us in our group didn't give two shits about the different 'tones' between us and that we could call each other what we wanted to without offence because none of it mattered in the context of mates.

 

I hate to use stupid phrases like this but it's pretty much a case of "Racist is as racist thinks".

 

You're trying to make some reasonable points I'm sure but to be honest LDV it comes out looking like you're simply regurgitating some history & politics textbooks without really understanding the meaning ultimately behind it all. Sorry if that's not the case but most of your comments here sound a bit parrot fashion.

[Cret]

The modern use of the term nigger has been appropriated into urban black culture

 

I'd have thought it would actually be 'nigga' rather than the original spelling of the word but I'm no expert on these things.

 

Someone mentioned the term 'coon dog' before too. I always thought that simply meant a dog used for getting raccoons(sp?) - is that not the case? Didn't think that particular one was meant to be racist at all even though it sounds like it could be?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But that's the whole point. To many (most?) people these days, it simply isn't, because it is seen in the context of just being an abbreviation. Yes there are some poeple that see it differently but you've stated that it SHOULD be a racist word and it should not be. No word ultimately SHOULD be racist - it sounds like you are trying to perpetuate such bad ideals, although I am not accusing you of that of course.

 

I never said that Paki SHOULD be a racist term, I made reference to the fact that the way Jap was used should be seen to be what it was and that is racist. I don't know what you mean by bad ideals in any case, sounds like a meaningless comment.

 

 

Yes of course we all know & understand history of these things but they are not the issue in general.

 

I understand completely that these words CAN be racist but it doesn't mean that they necessarily are. I don't see why you can't understand that context/intent is the most important thing here.

 

You're trying to make some reasonable points I'm sure but to be honest LDV it comes out looking like you're simply regurgitating some history & politics textbooks without really understanding the meaning ultimately behind it all. Sorry if that's not the case but most of your comments here sound a bit parrot fashion.

 

Well I have no political or historical textbooks to go by, there aren't going to be any. Yet I feel those who question whether Paki are missing the whole point of what racism actually is never mind the meaning of this word, it is naive to say the least to talk of how black or asian people can use terms on white people but it can't be done back etc. (or that blinkered line of thinking). Context is important in the sense of whether a term can be oppressive or not. If I myself call my friend a puff it has no oppressiveness because I am a puff too so am equally subject the meanings behind the term. The same goes for an Indian or Pakistani to call themselves Pakis or a Pakistani to call a Paki. Still a racist word however. I have never heard of the term used in any other way than to insult or to refer to people in a derogatory way except on the odd occasion when I have heard young Pakistanis calling themselves that. Nevertheless, as I have said, words carry meaning and carry that meaning from usage over time.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The modern use of the term nigger has been appropriated into urban black culture

 

I'd have thought it would actually be 'nigga' rather than the original spelling of the word but I'm no expert on these things.

 

Someone mentioned the term 'coon dog' before too. I always thought that simply meant a dog used for getting raccoons(sp?) - is that not the case? Didn't think that particular one was meant to be racist at all even though it sounds like it could be?

 

Is it me who has the textbooks out or you?

 

Far be it for me to the authority on the etymology of the words nigger and nigga but I think you will find that they mean the same thing and originate with the use by white people againts black people. Simply because the 'er' has been substituted does not in any way mean that they are different words.

 

I have heard 'coon' a lot and I know what that means.

[don fugazi]

Never thought I'd be offering any kind of defence for the Royal Family (bunch of inbred bozos) but …

 

Prince Harry has not had the advantage (yes that's right) of living in Huddersfield, Leeds, Bradford or anywhere else where he might have actually had to interact daily with the citizens of his ancestors' fractured and shrinking Empire. He needs to learn how to behave in situations that don't involve people queuing up to ah, kiss his ring.

 

This will be a lesson, move on. Hopefully the ginger twat will think before talking a bit more in future. I don't think that he is like his grandad, who thinks that the people of the world habitually and happily self-describe as dago, slanty-eyed Chinky, spear-chucking fuzzy-wuzzy etc.

[Paul H]

I know this is missing the point but I can't help wonder... do the Taliban read this shite and if so, are they laughing their arses off? Could you imagine for just one minute what would happen in their ranks if someone took offence by being called names? One of them would be shot. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be the one who is third in line to the throne! Now that's what I call political correctness!!!