hboy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Not nice HBoy - however much I dislike bankers, I'd only want the ringleaders ceremonially paraded out at dawn and thrown in the stocks. Thats the point though. Most of the people getting affected are normal desent human beings and not even in high paid jobs as I know what the IOM salary scales are. But these bloody rubber neckers who post stuff on these forums beaming with glee everytime there might be job losses really piss me off. There will not be 500 jobs lost on the Island or likely even offshore so to me that is a totally misleading sensationalist headline that is basically designed to spread fear and discontent. It is totally irresponsible journalism and human nature at its lowest if you ask me. Lets just find a group of people already worried about their jobs and completely kick them in the balls for the sake of getting one grubby sensationalist headline in amongst all the other shit they write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There will not be 500 jobs lost on the Island or likely even offshore so to me that is a totally misleading sensationalist headline that is basically designed to spread fear and discontent. It is totally irresponsible journalism and human nature at its lowest if you ask me. You have to face facts sometimes, and the facts are building. We are only at the start of this credit crunch here in terms of its impact on employment. Sorry, but to pretend otherwise is ostrichising and/or demonstrating a lack of understanding of what is actually happening in the UK/ROW. Credit is not flowing yet and is unlikely to without a further recapitilisation of the banks, who in the meantime are hording money and building their reserves, at the expense of companies, often well known companies, facing real problems because of this. My guess is that you are in your late 20s/early 30s and haven't witnessed a proper recession yet. You only typically need 5% of the economy to go tits up for major problems to ensue. Things are far worse than that. However, if you want to ignore this then please take a look at this link instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Sorry, but to pretend otherwise is ostrichising and/or demonstrating a lack of understanding of what is actually happening in the UK/ROW. Credit is not flowing yet and is unlikely to without a further recapitilisation of the banks, who in the meantime are hording money and building their reserves, at the expense of companies, often well known companies, facing real problems because of this. My guess is that you are in your late 20s/early 30s and haven't witnessed a proper recession yet. You only typically need 5% of the economy to go tits up for major problems to ensue. Things are far worse than that. However, if you want to ignore this then please take a look at this link instead. I am a realist and well outside of the age range you suggest. I was here when there was fuck all employment in the 80s but to clumsily craft a headline that suggests that Barclays will shed 500 jobs on the Island is nothing short of scaremongering to me. Its not likely to be anywhere near that level. The bigger worry is RBS - they have over 1800 workers here in one form or another and are ostensibly owned by a foreign government that has proved itself to be unfriendly to us already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 wonder what would happen to the housing market if the job losses become a reality. My mate is a property dealer across and lost a lot of his long term tenants after a mid size company in the region made several staff reduntant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The Madoff ripples are beginning to have their affect...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It's easy, and populist, to blame the bosses, traders and maths wizards - and to suggest that they are in some ways different from the people further down the chain - who are, by popular myth, in no way responsible. I don't hold with that. Not because I'm particularly suggesting that the people further down the banking chain are particularly more to blame - but because I believe that nearly everyone involved in this mess probably basically thought that they were working hard and doing the right thing. It's a house of cards - everyone involved is equally responsible. The people who worked in the branches and offices are no less to blame than the people who had the flashy jobs and the big salaries. It's a mess in which they are all equally involved. Everyone working at the banks (certainly anyone dealing with the investing public) had an equal responsibility to make sure that they knew and understood what they selling - and that they were not just repeating something which they had been told to say). Many of the people now being popularly vilified were extremely hard working. They cocked it up because the model was unsustainable. But they are no more to blame than the 9 - 5ers did well out of them for years. Or the society which encouraged such decadence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_manx Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It's easy, and populist, to blame the bosses, traders and maths wizards - and to suggest that they are in some ways different from the people further down the chain - who are, by popular myth, in no way responsible. I don't hold with that. Not because I'm particularly suggesting that the people further down the banking chain are particularly more to blame - but because I believe that nearly everyone involved in this mess probably basically thought that they were working hard and doing the right thing. It's a house of cards - everyone involved is equally responsible. The people who worked in the branches and offices are no less to blame than the people who had the flashy jobs and the big salaries. It's a mess in which they are all equally involved. Everyone working at the banks (certainly anyone dealing with the investing public) had an equal responsibility to make sure that they knew and understood what they selling - and that they were not just repeating something which they had been told to say). Many of the people now being popularly vilified were extremely hard working. They cocked it up because the model was unsustainable. But they are no more to blame than the 9 - 5ers did well out of them for years. Or the society which encouraged such decadence. How can you hold an employee at the grassroot level responsible for all this mess?. Mind you, there are plenty of anciliary staff working in these instituitions as well who will be affected. Most decisions in a bank are taken by the people higher up and the one's in the lower hierarchy follow them. ( I'm not connected to the banking sector in any way by the way!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The bigger worry is RBS - they have over 1800 workers here in one form or another and are ostensibly owned by a foreign government that has proved itself to be unfriendly to us already. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) group might well have already stopped trading if it wasn't for that 'unfriendly' foreign govt. According to the press it was touch and go. I'm guessing that some jobs losses would be quite likely if only because the amount of business will decline. And (separately) anyone who had their savings in Halifax / Bank Of Scotland (IOM) was probably quite relieved that Mr Brown and that 'unfriendly' foreign govt put together a deal which prevented that bank from crashing. If it wasn't for that 'unfriendly' foreign govt, the IOM might have been looking at rather more collapsed banks already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Great, more pointless people out of pointless jobs, maybe we'll start getting decent chips from the chippy again soon, once all the chip shop workers are back in their rightful place. Not very bright, really, are you? S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Lloyds TSB next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Lloyds TSB next Shit we are all doomed!!! Grab your tin foil hats..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Many of the people now being popularly vilified were extremely hard working. They cocked it up because the model was unsustainable. But they are no more to blame than the 9 - 5ers did well out of them for years. Or the society which encouraged such decadence. What model do you refer to Pongo when you say it is unsustainable? Are you talking about old-fashioned behaviours? It just seems to me to be yet another inevitable and tragic episode in the history of capitalism. People took 'risks' as they ought to in such a system, the risks to them were never serious so they are always worth taking, the risks didn't work out, and inevitably the bottom least prepared and most vulnerable suffer for it. Nothing extraordinary about it. It is a fragile system and one where the worker is always going to suffer when shit hits the fan. The people who worked in the branches and offices are no less to blame than the people who had the flashy jobs and the big salaries. It's a mess in which they are all equally involved. Everyone working at the banks (certainly anyone dealing with the investing public) had an equal responsibility to make sure that they knew and understood what they selling - and that they were not just repeating something which they had been told to say). People do not have luxury to make easy decisions based on ethics in the workplace. People are not able to take ANY job they want and work in any fashion they wish, control is something that is not in the hands of the worker but the employer. The person in the bank pushing the credit cards, loans, or other credit does so because that is what their employer wants them to do. If you disobey your masters you don't get treated well and who wants to risk losing their job. When your welfare depends on a job you aren't going to get very ethical about what you selling, it is just part of the day by day robot work you are paid to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I feel sorry for any real people losing jobs so that the Masters of the Universe can continue to wreak havoc and fill their pockets even more. The person in the bank pushing the credit cards, loans, or other credit does so because that is what their employer wants them to do. If you disobey your masters you don't get treated well and who wants to risk losing their job. When your welfare depends on a job you aren't going to get very ethical about what you selling, it is just part of the day by day robot work you are paid to do. Whatever the business is the behaviour that percolates through it comes from the top. If things are wrong the top person should a) be aware of it and b) stop it. If he/she doesn't know what is going on they shouldn't be in the job. The late 20th and early 21st century executive and board level culture in many banks rewarded risk taking ahead of risk assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The Madoff ripples are beginning to have their affect...... Need my eyes testing. First read of this I read, "The Madoff nipples..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The person in the bank pushing the credit cards, loans, or other credit does so because that is what their employer wants them to do. If you disobey your masters you don't get treated well and who wants to risk losing their job. When your welfare depends on a job you aren't going to get very ethical about what you selling, it is just part of the day by day robot work you are paid to do. Only following orders eh ? I don't exactly disagree with you - but what I would say is that most workers have a boss who is also a worker and just as vulnerable economically. And that is likely to be the same at all levels of the hierarchy. Because, ultimately, the system of consensus is the only boss. Even the top boss survives only at the whim of the board and the shareholders, the market, the press and the system itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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