slinkydevil Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ramble, Ramble. No answer just side-stepping. In your 'completely different social system' how would you deal with this particular situation? Or is your social system flawed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 its LDVs own form of escapism .. its doing no harm and he knows nothing will ever change to his wishful thinking .. but as said it iant harming anyone either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ramble, Ramble. No answer just side-stepping. In your 'completely different social system' how would you deal with this particular situation? Or is your social system flawed? Maybe it is flawed, but so is this one. But I don't know yet because it hasn't been tried long enough. The assumption that many anarchists have is that sexual abuse and violence will not occur because sexual repression is something that will disappear. With sexual repression and the eradication of sexism or female oppression there is little or no motivation for rape. There is no expectation from such people that rape will occur. I am not absolutely sure I agree with that, but it seems to make sense. It is considered, though I think it is possibly dangerous, that in an anarchist society, crimes of a very serious nature i.e. serial murders and rape point to mental conditions in which case the person MUST be removed from society. Nevertheless, regardless of the society setting aside punishment for retribution and deterrence, what good do you think punishment would do for these men? its LDVs own form of escapism .. its doing no harm and he knows nothing will ever change to his wishful thinking It is wishful thinking if there is no revolution, but you have to hope for the future, otherwise there is little hope for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 A lack of co-operation by the community made it extremely difficult to investigate, she added. That says a lot about the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 You were quick with that, was that theory one of the first things that popped into your mind? More interestingly, why do you think she was white? Simple if you watch the international news channels it was stated she was. Oh and for my bit bring back the hung drawn and quartered punishment for these animals and do it very slowly, these animal will not respond to any punishment they are pure evil no excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 the origin of these three might provide an answer, were they born in the UK - in which case UK law shoudl apply, or have they arrived from other countries where the punishment metted out by the communities might include stoning to death or something more appropriate. Perhaps the victim or her family should be given the opportunity of setting the level of punishment rather than the trial judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 You were quick with that, was that theory one of the first things that popped into your mind? More interestingly, why do you think she was white? Simple if you watch the international news channels it was stated she was. Oh and for my bit bring back the hung drawn and quartered punishment for these animals and do it very slowly, these animal will not respond to any punishment they are pure evil no excuses. "There, that's a good job well done. Squealed a lot didn't he, but now he's just fit for feeding to cattle." "Hey, are you sure you got the right chap? This looks remarkably like JMBMS." "Good God, you're right. Whoops. I wonder how that happened. What do we do now?"" "I suggest we just keep quiet about it. The public blood-lust has been satisfied; that's the main thing. Our job is vengeance; we don't do abstract concepts like justice." "You're right. The important thing is that we got somebody; who it was doesn't really matter." "Right, who's for a pint? This is thirsty work. There'll be plenty of people buying us drinks tonight" S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Crap http://www.leighreporter.co.uk/latest-nati...rape.4891814.jp Three men, who filmed themselves gang-raping a 16-year-old girl before dousing her in caustic soda, The girl, with a mental age of eight, screamed in pain as she was disfigured for life. They later laughed while using their mobile phones to record her suffering As she writhed in agony, they poured water on her, intensifying the burning. Their own mobiles convicted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 pure evil is right .. does the human race really need these people contributing to the gene pool. i ask in all seriousness..?? should animals like them be allowed to live or be euthenised.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I've said this already but I don't condone punishment when it is meted out by judge, when what is a crime and what is a punishment is established by them. LDV - where do you think the decisions on what is a crime and a punishment come from? From judges? Or from Parliament? You seem to have an inability to concieve of a community bigger than a village where everyone has to be involved in every decision (villages like this existed in cultural revolution China - they were horrible places - wasteful, subject to mob violence and massively destructive to individual effort. You seem incapable of seeing that people will make a rational choice to allow others to make many of these decisions for them, freeing them up to do other things. Democracy is what allows that trust to be created freeing people up to make more of their lives. But I don't know yet because it hasn't been tried long enough. What does it in this sentence mean? If you are going to reply anarchy, I'm going to ask you what that means - does your theory actually have any practical basis? The assumption that many anarchists have is that sexual abuse and violence will not occur because sexual repression is something that will disappear. With sexual repression and the eradication of sexism or female oppression there is little or no motivation for rape. It is wishful thinking if there is no revolution, but you have to hope for the future, otherwise there is little hope for the future. LDV - as ever you are missing the point - you are being asked HOW. HOW will the "revolution" (whatever that means) end sexual repression allowing it to disappear, how will "it" eradicate sexism. I presume at the moment you are reading various anarchist books and manefestos written by various groups of people telling you they will lead you to an anarchist future (ironic isn't it) - how do you evaluate the divergent claims these different groups make. And don't just go on about abolishing money and or property - guess what when you take away the pound notes and coins people use cigarettes or shells or anything else they can think of - in order to be able to abolish money you have to do alot more than shutting the banks. And also guess what - when people take away everyones property, people start accumulating it again - these social experiments have been done - in China, Cambodia etc. Guess what - it doesn't work. Until you can start to say HOW you will remain open to ridicule and dismissal. Proudly saying your an anarchist is just a meaningless statement that you don't want to be involved in this society without providing any practical alternative - its just an empty statement, signifying nothing, and full of pie in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 should animals like them be allowed to live or be euthenised.. No. Execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 pure evil is right .. does the human race really need these people contributing to the gene pool. i ask in all seriousness..?? should animals like them be allowed to live or be euthenised.. You're right of course. Who needs traffic wardens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 pure evil is right .. does the human race really need these people contributing to the gene pool. i ask in all seriousness..?? should animals like them be allowed to live or be euthenised.. No.Execute. If you created that sort of society you would rapidly find that you are living just like "animals like them." Human life is precious - people have the ability to be dignified and humane. Many people are not, but for there to be justice we must create a community which values life rather than seeking to take life away. We must aspire to live by our ideals - that means our community can be abused by those who flout our rules - but we should always attempt to deal with that abuse through our community's rules. By doing that they always have a chance of redemption - of accepting those rules and understanding that if they have suffered a percieved injustice they have to work within the system to right that injustice. Communities will always fail to live up to their ideals - but must always attempt to ensure there is a way of recifying their failures. There is no place for judicial killing in such an ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 By an amazing coincidence most of this lot are black as well! So, do we have a justice system based on rehabilitation or a system based on retribution and revenge? Serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 By an amazing coincidence most of this lot are black as well! So, do we have a justice system based on rehabilitation or a system based on retribution and revenge? Serious question. In all seriousness it has to be a bit of both - or the victims or the families/friends of the victims will exact their own revenge. They have to feel that justice has been done, or they, and any vigilante fellow travellers, will try to extract their own ideas of what justice is. People have to be given a chance of rehabilitation, but that is a two way street - if they don't make the attempt they should stay in the prison system, and there must always be checks for when and if they fail in that attempt. Life should mean life and any licence for release should be able to be revoked on a much lower evidence standard than reasonable doubt - anyone know what the standard is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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