manxman2 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I tend to think he should be allowed be stay in the Isle of Man. I don't. He convicted of a crime that requires imprisonment in a category A prison and the Isle of Man's prison is category B. The level of security, type of prisoner and type of rehabilitation is meant to match the prisoner with the prison. But why does the Island not have a facility for the category of person? Is simply because there are so few prisoners who could be classed as such or is it because these people can be exiled to the UK quite easily? I don't agree with prisons, but it seems a standard thing that th prisoner does have access to family and friends no matter what crime has been committed. It might not be called a 'right' but it seems it is their for everyone and I think it should be there. By sending him across to the UK he won't have any contact with people he knows, and more importantly his family. its simple why he has to go .. our prison as stated is catagory B and it just doesnt have highly rated enough staff .. simple as. and ps his victims families no longer have contact with their loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 What do I think should be done with convicted killers? Well, I don't think banging them up does any good. If someone gets hidden away for nine years for example and then released...well...they are released. What is to stop them doing the same thing again. They should be punished, of course they should be punished. If you don't believe in prisons, what do you mean by punishment? This is a problem with murder and rape because for me there has to be a balance between the protection of the community with the freedom of the individual. Punishment should not be punitive should be socially based and enlightened, it needs to be able to show why the person has done wrong with causing them pain. But the difficulty with your question is that I already think that the vast majority of crimes, and probably MOST rapes and murders are a result of the society we live. and ps his victims families no longer have contact with their loved ones. True, but this does not mean that assailants families should have to suffer, even if their relative did commit a crime. And nor do I believe should the criminal suffer in this specific manner by being separated from his loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 What do I think should be done with convicted killers? Well, I don't think banging them up does any good. If someone gets hidden away for nine years for example and then released...well...they are released. What is to stop them doing the same thing again. They should be punished, of course they should be punished. If you don't believe in prisons, what do you mean by punishment? This is a problem with murder and rape because for me there has to be a balance between the protection of the community with the freedom of the individual. Punishment should not be punitive should be socially based and enlightened, it needs to be able to show why the person has done wrong with causing them pain. But the difficulty with your question is that I already think that the vast majority of crimes, and probably MOST rapes and murders are a result of the society we live. You'd make a great politician, you never directly answer the question that is being asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Punishment should not be punitive You have an etymological problem there. Punitive means punishing, and you can't have the one without the other. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 prison is the punishment sebrof .. i.e. you dont go to prison to be punished you go as a punishment .. your incarceration for however long it maybe is the punishment .. that said i do believe he would of been better rehabilitated on/in the island than he will be in an overcrowded english jail .. whether you agree or not he will be released one day .. and its up to our government as to what type of individual they return to OUR society .. they have chosen to sweep their/our garbbage under the rug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 You'd make a great politician, you never directly answer the question that is being asked. If you had to ask me straight up I think it is wrong that people are punished at all in the society we live in because crime is defined at present by the ruling classes, society is policed on their behalf, and they choose the punishments. Unless society, and not some supposed representative of society, takes charge then there should be no punishment. There is clearly little deterrence as it is and only the threat of severe violence of emotional pain tends to deter as a punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Punishment should not be punitive You have an etymological problem there. Punitive means punishing, and you can't have the one without the other. S Your right. I think I am misusing the wor punishment for what be an approach to crime that deals with the person specifically. In the case of murder it makes it difficult to answer. I am undecided whether a commune (which would be all of the society) should essentially choose a punishment, but could be a tyranny of the majority as the perpetrator would no doubt have little say on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. It seems tempting, especially in respect of that other thread about the rape. I do kind of wish they would get their heads smashed in. But it is an emotional response, it is about vengeane and retribution. But what if that person has made a mistake. What if they are completely remorseful and recognise the wrong they have done? And more importantly, it seems a question of do two wrongs make a right? A victim, family, or society may have got their revenge and feel better for it, but they have done the same as the murderer. They have killed. It makes killing more acceptable. And then it has to be recognised, that even with murder, the person is a reflection of the society they live in and their personality and decisionmaking is partly a result of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. It seems tempting, especially in respect of that other thread about the rape. I do kind of wish they would get their heads smashed in. But it is an emotional response, it is about vengeane and retribution. But what if that person has made a mistake. What if they are completely remorseful and recognise the wrong they have done? And more importantly, it seems a question of do two wrongs make a right? A victim, family, or society may have got their revenge and feel better for it, but they have done the same as the murderer. They have killed. It makes killing more acceptable. And then it has to be recognised, that even with murder, the person is a reflection of the society they live in and their personality and decisionmaking is partly a result of that. aye but your talking about societies that condone mass murder by their armed forces in pursiut of oil and influence in regions we have absolutely no right to be in .. so im affraid i have no sympathy for a cold blooded murderer .. as for the rapists cut their bollocks off .. no need to be brutal about it just anaesthetise them fiirst. .. as chemical castration doesnt always work .. but a scalpel however always does. the arabs have a simple justice system you have 2 handed honest people one handed dishonest remorseful people and handless bellends. also their women are only ever unfaithful ONCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 prison is the punishment sebrof .. i.e. you dont go to prison to be punished you go as a punishment .. your incarceration for however long it maybe is the punishment .. that said i do believe he would of been better rehabilitated on/in the island than he will be in an overcrowded english jail .. whether you agree or not he will be released one day .. and its up to our government as to what type of individual they return to OUR society .. they have chosen to sweep their/our garbbage under the rug. Not a bad post, MM2. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 prison is the punishment sebrof .. i.e. you dont go to prison to be punished you go as a punishment .. your incarceration for however long it maybe is the punishment .. that said i do believe he would of been better rehabilitated on/in the island than he will be in an overcrowded english jail .. whether you agree or not he will be released one day .. and its up to our government as to what type of individual they return to OUR society .. they have chosen to sweep their/our garbbage under the rug. Not a bad post, MM2. S I thought so too. This subsequent one rather negated it however. an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. But what if that person has made a mistake. and what if that person made the same mistake twice on the same day?? the 'mistake' was getting caught as far as he was concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. Is that why they have the highest homicide rate in the Western world? S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 aye but your talking about societies that condone mass murder by their armed forces in pursiut of oil and influence in regions we have absolutely no right to be in .. so im affraid i have no sympathy for a cold blooded murderer But if we and the Americans have a system where military force is condoned in such murders then we hardly punish our own, if I am following your logic correctly. Unless you mean that you are a pacifist or believe force should only be used in self defence. the arabs have a simple justice system you have 2 handed honest people one handed dishonest remorseful people and handless bellends. also their women are only ever unfaithful ONCE. Yes they do have a simply justice system, its also backward, unenlightened and thoroughly repressive. Nothing to be admired at all. In our society the state has little care for what causes crime but in these countries it isn't even a issue. Someone told me that in Saudi Arabia you get three chances (or something like that). You keep stealing and on the third time you get caught your hand is taken off. Setting aside how barbaric that is, I don't think the thief is THAT stupid to take such risks without some very stong motivation to do so. Why steal in the first place? It isn't about good and bad people and that's that. It is about the society we live in that creates the people and environment that lead to crime. Responsibility should not be placed wholly on the perpertrator. It is but clearly this method does not work, criminals keep turning up. Though I would hope that the comment on woman only being unfaithful ONCE is some bizarre joke. We are talking about the oppression of women in these nasty regimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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