manxman2 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 prison is the punishment sebrof .. i.e. you dont go to prison to be punished you go as a punishment .. your incarceration for however long it maybe is the punishment .. that said i do believe he would of been better rehabilitated on/in the island than he will be in an overcrowded english jail .. whether you agree or not he will be released one day .. and its up to our government as to what type of individual they return to OUR society .. they have chosen to sweep their/our garbbage under the rug. Not a bad post, MM2. S I thought so too. This subsequent one rather negated it however. an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. one of the many differences between you and i keyboarder is i have lived thru the abolishment of capital punishment in my lifetime .. during my lifetime many murders were put to death in england and so would he of been only time is the differentiating factor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 aye but your talking about societies that condone mass murder by their armed forces in pursiut of oil and influence in regions we have absolutely no right to be in .. so im affraid i have no sympathy for a cold blooded murderer But if we and the Americans have a system where military force is condoned in such murders then we hardly punish our own, if I am following your logic correctly. Unless you mean that you are a pacifist or believe force should only be used in self defence. the arabs have a simple justice system you have 2 handed honest people one handed dishonest remorseful people and handless bellends. also their women are only ever unfaithful ONCE. Yes they do have a simply justice system, its also backward, unenlightened and thoroughly repressive. Nothing to be admired at all. In our society the state has little care for what causes crime but in these countries it isn't even a issue. Someone told me that in Saudi Arabia you get three chances (or something like that). You keep stealing and on the third time you get caught your hand is taken off. Setting aside how barbaric that is, I don't think the thief is THAT stupid to take such risks without some very stong motivation to do so. Why steal in the first place? It isn't about good and bad people and that's that. It is about the society we live in that creates the people and environment that lead to crime. Responsibility should not be placed wholly on the perpertrator. It is but clearly this method does not work, criminals keep turning up. Though I would hope that the comment on woman only being unfaithful ONCE is some bizarre joke. We are talking about the oppression of women in these nasty regimes. ofcourse it was a joke/stroke mild bait for the boarder boy.. .. plus i found it amusing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 ofcourse it was a joke/stroke mild bait for the boarder boy.. .. plus i found it amusing.. Well you baited me, but I'm easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 one of the many differences between you and i keyboarder is i have lived thru the abolishment of capital punishment in my lifetime .. during my lifetime many murders were put to death in england and so would he of been only time is the differentiating factor.. Interestingly, many of those executed have since been found to have been innocent. And murder rates didn't shoot up after capital punishment was abolished. Food for thought. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 that is why i dont agree with capital punishment as unsound convictions are all too frequently handed down too satisfy political pressure or pure distortion of the facts/evidence by policemen for numorous reasons.. i do believe tho that policeman should be held culpable for their deciet/mistakes no matter what their motivations. anyone else in society is responsible for their actions .. however i have never heard in all my years of a detective whose evidence has convicted a man be prosecuted when the conviction has been found to be unsafe due to the detectives corrupt evidence. its an unwinnable arguement crime and retribution .. the punishments vary from person to person in opinions it is a real ballbreaker . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 that is why i dont agree with capital punishment as unsound convictions are all too frequently handed down too satisfy political pressure or pure distortion of the facts/evidence by policemen for numorous reasons.. i do believe tho that policeman should be held culpable for their deciet/mistakes no matter what their motivations. anyone else in society is responsible for their actions .. however i have never heard in all my years of a detective whose evidence has convicted a man be prosecuted when the conviction has been found to be unsafe due to the detectives corrupt evidence. its an unwinnable arguement crime and retribution .. the punishments vary from person to person in opinions it is a real ballbreaker . Not a detective, but twenty-odd years ago there was a forensics chap in West Midlands who was found to have falsified a great many results, leading to wrongful convictions. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 an eye for an eye .. its simple. say what you like about the american justice system and their many many errors .. people still know you kill someone YOU die. Show me a justice system anywhere that has never made a mistake and sent an innocent man to gaol - then I'll accept the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 been a reasonably pleasent chat sebrof .. see what you can achieve when you agree with me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 been a reasonably pleasent chat sebrof .. see what you can achieve when you agree with me.. See what happens when you talk sense! S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I tend to think he should be allowed be stay in the Isle of Man. I don't. He convicted of a crime that requires imprisonment in a category A prison and the Isle of Man's prison is category B. The level of security, type of prisoner and type of rehabilitation is meant to match the prisoner with the prison. But why does the Island not have a facility for the category of person? Is simply because there are so few prisoners who could be classed as such or is it because these people can be exiled to the UK quite easily? I don't agree with prisons, but it seems a standard thing that th prisoner does have access to family and friends no matter what crime has been committed. It might not be called a 'right' but it seems it is their for everyone and I think it should be there. By sending him across to the UK he won't have any contact with people he knows, and more importantly his family. At the point he willingly took the rights of those 2 teenagers to live a hopefully happy life he did so willingly and by doing that he by his own actions gave up his rights to be allowed the normal freedoms other citizens enjoy. If it is decided that he should be sent to another place of incarceration then so be it, if that includes less visits and further alienation from people who visit him them maybe he will have more time to reflect on his actions. One day he will be released, those two teenagers will never be brought back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Double killer loses prison battle Tough shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 One day he will be released, ........... That's why how he is treated is important. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 UK? IoM? Let's compromise... drop the little shit in the middle of the Irish Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/cso/commission/day16.pdf The above is Sam Barton's mother's evidence to the commission of enquiry into child care.( Rose Burnell)it is available on the government web site, therefore in the public domain. The first part is the evidence of samantha's aunt. scroll down for Rose Burnell transcript. Then: This is from Rose Burnell’s statement to the commission. Samantha’s visit to Ireland. 10. Whilst at Cummal Shee, Samantha and Lyndsey were given permission to visit their father in Ireland. We had been on the Isle of Man for 5 years and I felt they should see him but I did not want him to know we were living on the Isle of Man. I was scared that he would try and find us. 11. Social Services were aware that Samantha and Lyndsey were visiting their father. They were also aware that he had convictions for murder and that he used drugs. 12. In hindsight and bearing in mind my own fragile health at the time, I do not believe they should have allowed this visit to take place. The girls were under Care Orders at the time. They should have at least been accompanied by a Social Worker. In fact, they went alone . It's amazing what doesn't get into the headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 One day he will be released, ........... That's why how he is treated is important. S not many people get that fundamental point sebrof .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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