La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 At the point he willingly took the rights of those 2 teenagers to live a hopefully happy life he did so willingly and by doing that he by his own actions gave up his rights to be allowed the normal freedoms other citizens enjoy. If it is decided that he should be sent to another place of incarceration then so be it, if that includes less visits and further alienation from people who visit him them maybe he will have more time to reflect on his actions. One day he will be released, those two teenagers will never be brought back. What freedoms are those that should be taken away? Why the need to remove freedoms, you argument sounds more driven by the punishment related to freedoms rather than protection of the community? I agree with Sebrof's point. He is already in prison, to further alienate him from society especially from family is not going to make him feel any more remorseful, if he is at all, and it is silly to think that it will offer him more time to reflect on his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 He is already in prison, to further alienate him from society especially from family is not going to make him feel any more remorseful, if he is at all, and it is silly to think that it will offer him more time to reflect on his actions. Rubbish. It should be all about pissing him off and making his life more difficult than it is already. If it would piss him off more to move him to the UK then do it, in fact if he would be more pissed off moving to Australia then bloody well ship him there. Given what he has done also why not let people file past his cell poking him with sticks, maybe even throw a few buns through the bars for our amusement. It may not make him feel any more remoseful but 25 years being totally pissed off for no logical reason seems fair play to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 At the point he willingly took the rights of those 2 teenagers to live a hopefully happy life he did so willingly and by doing that he by his own actions gave up his rights to be allowed the normal freedoms other citizens enjoy. If it is decided that he should be sent to another place of incarceration then so be it, if that includes less visits and further alienation from people who visit him them maybe he will have more time to reflect on his actions. One day he will be released, those two teenagers will never be brought back. What freedoms are those that should be taken away? Why the need to remove freedoms, you argument sounds more driven by the punishment related to freedoms rather than protection of the community? I agree with Sebrof's point. He is already in prison, to further alienate him from society especially from family is not going to make him feel any more remorseful, if he is at all, and it is silly to think that it will offer him more time to reflect on his actions. You are always beating on about the plight of the poor criminals so come on wonder boy tell us what you would do about the plight of the victims and their families? Tell us who is more important the victim or the criminal? Who deserves most help? Can we have the answer short and simple without the waffle please. You never cease to amaze me with your answers LDV, all I know is that if ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 If you had to ask me straight up I think it is wrong that people are punished at all in the society we live in because crime is defined at present by the ruling classes, society is policed on their behalf, and they choose the punishments. Unless society, and not some supposed representative of society, takes charge then there should be no punishment. There is clearly little deterrence as it is and only the threat of severe violence of emotional pain tends to deter as a punishment. "Ruling classes", my sainted aunt. How old are you? 16? Do you have a picture of Che on your bedroom wall? That sounds like it comes out of "Marx for Beginners". I think you'll find that murder - the intentional and wrongful killing of another human being - is found in all societies and criminalised by all societies, including so-called classless societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BETTYBOO68 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 so what if he is moved to the uk and will miss his family, he should of thought of that when he took these 2 kids lives, he robbed their families of seen them grow into adult hood, find jobs , start a family, see their gran children,nephew nieces grow up. why should his feelings be considered? do the crime serve the time... government need to remove all luxuries prisoners get and give stiffer sentences then maybe it might deter future offfenders. life is too cushy in prison and thats why the same offenders keep repeating crime over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molly Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 so what if he is moved to the uk and will miss his family, he should of thought of that when he took these 2 kids lives, he robbed their families of seen them grow into adult hood, find jobs , start a family, see their gran children,nephew nieces grow up. why should his feelings be considered? do the crime serve the time... government need to remove all luxuries prisoners get and give stiffer sentences then maybe it might deter future offfenders. life is too cushy in prison and thats why the same offenders keep repeating crime over and over again. Christ these two 'kids' that you refer too were as bad if not worse than the killer himself, I see it as he saved us of the nastiness of there scum offspring and a life of benefits and scrounging. Fuck them! Harsh but no less than they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Perilous is the outlook for those treading water in the turbulent sea of stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 so what if he is moved to the uk and will miss his family, he should of thought of that when he took these 2 kids lives, he robbed their families of seen them grow into adult hood, find jobs , start a family, see their gran children,nephew nieces grow up. why should his feelings be considered? do the crime serve the time... government need to remove all luxuries prisoners get and give stiffer sentences then maybe it might deter future offfenders. life is too cushy in prison and thats why the same offenders keep repeating crime over and over again. you been inside then betty ..?? what luxuries do you think they have in our new prison deckchairs and sun hats.. can you explain the luxuries angle please betty. plus its not about the offender missing his family its more to do with his innocent family being deprived of seeing him.. also the murdered kids hadnt had the best start in life .. not their fault .. but they were in care because they were troubled kids .. its just speculation imo about how they would of turned out .. but theres no worse kind of murder when all is said and done than that of a child never mind 2 of them and the guy wouldnt get any sympathy from me .. however all 3 families would as they were not responsible for his barbaric actions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immortalpuppet Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Christ these two 'kids' that you refer too were as bad if not worse than the killer himself, I see it as he saved us of the nastiness of there scum offspring and a life of benefits and scrounging. Fuck them! Harsh but no less than they deserve. Worst post i have read on the forums to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 They were just that...kids, who the fuck are you Molly to judge them as being worse than the man who murdered them in cold blood? He can get fucked, his family should not care where he is locked up, I would not visit a family member if he/she murdered 2 kids. I really cannot understand the issue here, the twat who murdered that lass at druidale was shipped, nobody gave a fuck then, what changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Plus its not about the offender missing his family its more to do with his innocent family being deprived of seeing him.. I couldn't give two hoots about his family's feelings to be honest. If I were them I'd have given him up as a lost cause and moved on. Hopefully then he'd get the message that he's a worthless waste of space, do the honorable thing and save us all a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hessian Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 What do I think should be done with convicted killers? Well, I don't think banging them up does any good. If someone gets hidden away for nine years for example and then released...well...they are released. What is to stop them doing the same thing again. They should be punished, of course they should be punished. If you don't believe in prisons, what do you mean by punishment? This is a problem with murder and rape because for me there has to be a balance between the protection of the community with the freedom of the individual. Punishment should not be punitive should be socially based and enlightened, it needs to be able to show why the person has done wrong with causing them pain. But the difficulty with your question is that I already think that the vast majority of crimes, and probably MOST rapes and murders are a result of the society we live. and ps his victims families no longer have contact with their loved ones. True, but this does not mean that assailants families should have to suffer, even if their relative did commit a crime. And nor do I believe should the criminal suffer in this specific manner by being separated from his loved ones. "sippenhaft": the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Rubbish. It should be all about pissing him off and making his life more difficult than it is already. If it would piss him off more to move him to the UK then do it, in fact if he would be more pissed off moving to Australia then bloody well ship him there. Given what he has done also why not let people file past his cell poking him with sticks, maybe even throw a few buns through the bars for our amusement. It may not make him feel any more remoseful but 25 years being totally pissed off for no logical reason seems fair play to me. That is just revenge, do you think that is all that it should be? If you do this then society takes absolutely no responsibility for itself, but he is part of society and will be returning to it when he is released. I do find it quite funny though (not in a pisstaking way) how others want him to feel pain but you just want to have him forever pissed off. You are always beating on about the plight of the poor criminals so come on wonder boy tell us what you would do about the plight of the victims and their families? Tell us who is more important the victim or the criminal? Who deserves most help? Can we have the answer short and simple without the waffle please. You never cease to amaze me with your answers LDV, all I know is that if ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive. Who is more important, victim or criminal? To society, I would say both. And both people need help. The victims often need support and recognition from the community of what has taken place. I don't really know what more to say. How else can you help the victim? The arguments I see coming from you seem to revolve around basic vengeance and to simply hurt or cause suffering so that the victim or his/her family feel better, it leaves out so many other issues. Maybe I am ignorant of some wisdom that you are yet to impart, but I am suspicious of that possibility as it would have been demonstrated, would it not? "Ruling classes", my sainted aunt. How old are you? 16? Do you have a picture of Che on your bedroom wall? That sounds like it comes out of "Marx for Beginners". I think you'll find that murder - the intentional and wrongful killing of another human being - is found in all societies and criminalised by all societies, including so-called classless societies. Ruling classes - a fitting term for those who rule. Do those in power in government not rule? Quite right, murder is in all societies, however, some are sanctioned in law and some are not. As Manxman pointed out, the murder of others is sanctioned with the use of military force. government need to remove all luxuries prisoners get and give stiffer sentences then maybe it might deter future offfenders. life is too cushy in prison and thats why the same offenders keep repeating crime over and over again. Stiffer, how much stiffer. I see it that criminals take the risk to commit something premeditated with an understanding of the chances of getting caught, not just about the conseqences of getting caught. I can only see it that such sentences would have to be so severe as to instill a real fear in the person not to commit them. But this I think leads to a society that lives in fear of transgressing the law. And importantly, the society that we live in creates the criminals and crimes that we have, it gets what it deserves in a sense. To impose very sever sentencing is to ignore the cause and instill fear. I don't think that is wise. Capital punishment didn't deter did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macmannin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 A few years ago I had the misfortune to book in to the hotel on Victoria road.I would see this fella in e wing,almost daily.He was medicated to the point of being a zombie,living in a different world.Doubt he would know what is going on.If the ex posty Linden was allowed in general population,also Jewell the rapist,why is Newby being treated different? I would keep him in seg for the term of his sentence,then farm him off to a mental institution for the rest of his life.All on Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 He was medicated to the point of being a zombie, living in a different world. Well you'd probably not want to be thinking about what you done if you were him. Christ these two 'kids' that you refer too were as bad if not worse than the killer himself, I see it as he saved us of the nastiness of there scum offspring and a life of benefits and scrounging. Fuck them! Harsh but no less than they deserve. Unbelievably nasty post IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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