Compensation Madness?

[Max Power]

I think that what some people don't realise is that a lot of the terrorism and murder was committed by psychopaths and gangsters in the so called name of freedom or political gain.

I was held at gunpoint by three of these so called 'heroes' just before the end of the current troubles. They were nothing more than scum with no real purpose than having 'fun'. One of them was apparently responsible for an atrocity which cost several lives in a well known bombing. He and one of the others were gunned down a year later in revenge. My crime was to talk with an 'English' accent! I was lucky to be able to answer my interrogation with the right answers and have caught them at the right time of the night.

 

May they rot in hell! If their relatives get a penny, it's a disgrace to humanity!!

 

Maybe looking at the whole issue and raising the 'freedom' from Britain thing is way too complex. There are rights and wrongs on both sides, the Irish and British have been very stupid in the handling of the whole affair from the very beginning!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think that what some people don't realise is that a lot of the terrorism and murder was committed by psychopaths and gangsters in the so called name of freedom or political gain.

I was held at gunpoint by three of these so called 'heroes' just before the end of the current troubles. They were nothing more than scum with no real purpose than having 'fun'. One of them was apparently responsible for an atrocity which cost several lives in a well known bombing. He and one of the others were gunned down a year later in revenge. My crime was to talk with an 'English' accent! I was lucky to be able to answer my interrogation with the right answers and have caught them at the right time of the night.

 

May they rot in hell! If their relatives get a penny, it's a disgrace to humanity!!

 

Maybe looking at the whole issue and raising the 'freedom' from Britain thing is way too complex. There are rights and wrongs on both sides, the Irish and British have been very stupid in the handling of the whole affair from the very beginning!

 

Have you ever heard or read about the Shankill Butchers? Now people like them were just murderers who were part of the UVF paramilitary organisation.

 

Out of curiosity, what did your interrogation involve?

[Max Power]

I think that what some people don't realise is that a lot of the terrorism and murder was committed by psychopaths and gangsters in the so called name of freedom or political gain.

I was held at gunpoint by three of these so called 'heroes' just before the end of the current troubles. They were nothing more than scum with no real purpose than having 'fun'. One of them was apparently responsible for an atrocity which cost several lives in a well known bombing. He and one of the others were gunned down a year later in revenge. My crime was to talk with an 'English' accent! I was lucky to be able to answer my interrogation with the right answers and have caught them at the right time of the night.

 

May they rot in hell! If their relatives get a penny, it's a disgrace to humanity!!

 

Maybe looking at the whole issue and raising the 'freedom' from Britain thing is way too complex. There are rights and wrongs on both sides, the Irish and British have been very stupid in the handling of the whole affair from the very beginning!

 

Have you ever heard or read about the Shankill Butchers? Now people like them were just murderers who were part of the UVF paramilitary organisation.

 

Out of curiosity, what did your interrogation involve?

 

Well, to cut a long story short,I was in a pub in Belfast with a friend and didn't realise the 'friendly' people were reporting back to a group in the corner. When I went to the toilet I was accosted and quizzed threatiningly as to what I was doing there. I was accused of being an army agent?

 

When I managed to get away and tried to leave, we were stopped and apologisingly asked to join them for a drink, which they had already bought. Not being able to refuse we joined them and after about half an hour or so, a couple more pints and admittedly friendly chat, I was asked to look under the table. THERE WAS A PISTOL POINTED RIGHT AT ME!! as you can imagine, this is a little distracting. I was then asked to repeat my story word for word. Luckily it was the truth so I could convince them. We were then invited to join them at a club, they had made a phone call and a car had pulled up at the side door of the bar.

Amazingly, they accepted my refusal, picked up the third guy who had collapsed on the floor and left. I can't imagine anything more frightening believe me.

[Chinahand]

LDV on both sides there were people dedicated to protecting their community who were drawn into armed struggle out of political motives, but there were also thugs and mobsters who profited from the power the lack of state authority gave them to gain violent influence in their communities, and they had psychopathic hangers on who killed for the pleasure. Yeah the Shankill killers were an example on the loyalist side, but don't idealize the various factions on the republican side - many of them were thugs who terrorised their community and who still do with beatings, smuggling and protection rackets. What happened to Robert McCartney is only a single example of the thuggery both communities have been subject to by their "own".

[thebees]

It is only money and it is worthless when you consider the years of terror ALL of the people in NI went through. Ney, its worthless anyway, money can not bring people back from the dead & neither will it make that much difference in these families lives. I saw it as a token gesture of acceptance of peace & perhaps another signal of closure to the years of hate. If the people there can put it behind them and move on, so should the rest of us.

[manshimajin]

The saddest thing of all is that after all these years and all the unecessary killings it still seems impossible to reach closure. Listening to the news this evening just reminded me how thin the veneer of peace can be. Let's hope future generations do a better job.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV on both sides there were people dedicated to protecting their community who were drawn into armed struggle out of political motives, but there were also thugs and mobsters who profited from the power the lack of state authority gave them to gain violent influence in their communities, and they had psychopathic hangers on who killed for the pleasure. Yeah the Shankill killers were an example on the loyalist side, but don't idealize the various factions on the republican side - many of them were thugs who terrorised their community and who still do with beatings, smuggling and protection rackets. What happened to Robert McCartney is only a single example of the thuggery both communities have been subject to by their "own".

 

Comletely agree. I don't idealise the republicans at all, however. I only aimed to point out the manner in which the PIRA operated. Certainly when you look at 'Bloody Friday', the INLA killings in the early 80s, or the activities of the Real IRA there is little possibility of idealising them. Though in contrast the loyalist were reactive, they were less politically motivated and their political ideas were far less developed.

[cheesemonster2005]

I think that for the sake of reconciliation and simplicity the bombers would be treated as victims. Both sides would argue over who were terrorists and who were innocent victims and in a few cases it probably isn't clear to the authorities. Given the need for some sort of compensation this seems to be the best option and another step towards permanent peace however much such a decision would make some people queezy. (it's not my day for spelling)

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But for the sake of simplicity should we treat murderers as victims? Maybe the government has decided that political motivations of the killers make such crime difference, but this would be a volte face, although it would be return to policy in the 70s. And do you compensate all killers, regardless of their actions?

 

It doesn't make sense. I don't see how it is needed for permanent peace.

[Gladys]

What is evident from the TV reports is that, despite the peace process, the old tensions do not lie very deeply under the surface. Let's hope this is not enough to trigger a resurfacing of those feelings and a return to hostilities.

 

It was a brave step which is, kind of, understandable, but whether it is the right proposal and takes into account the remaining sensitivities in NI, is questionnable.

[MilitantDogOwner]

The IRA were a terrorist organisation not a formal standing army. They were terrorists not soldiers, they were not at war but engaging in terrorist acts.

 

In my opinion this is horse shit. Terrorists families are being rewarded for their terrorist relations acts. I take it the family of every civilian and service man killed by the IRA's evil acts are part of the scheme.

 

Screw the lot of them. This couldn't anymore insulting if they tried.

 

The Manchester street bombing. Thats all I have to say to IRA families getting compensation.

 

I disagree very much with your point about the PIRA not conducting a war, they were a terrorist organisation but they were insurgents fighting against the British presence, which involved attacking the security forces, and in this war they were legitimate targets from the perspective of their analysis of the causes of the conflict. Killing soldiers, even policemen on duty is not terrorism.

But I think it worthwhile remembering that the PIRA were not the only terrorist group. The loyalist paramilitaries were just terrorists, certainly not fighting any war. They almost wholly lashed out at innocent Catholics in reprisal for PIRA and INLA attacks.

 

Nobody died or was seriously hurt in the Manchester Street Bombing. But what 'Bloody Friday'.

 

I am quite surprised that more money is being dished out in compensation considered the billions that were spent in compensating for criminal damage throughout the period of the troubles.

 

But the compensation of paramilitary members does baffle me. What good reasons are there to hand over money their families? The CICA that deals with compensation in the UK will significantly reduce or will not compensate if someone has been involved in serious crime.

 

From Wikipedia:

"It occurred at 11:16 a.m. (GMT) on Saturday 15 June 1996, when the IRA detonated a bomb containing 1500kg (3300 lb) of explosives. The bomb was located in a Ford lorry parked two hours earlier in Corporation Street, between the Arndale Centre and the city's Marks & Spencer store, close to the centre of the city's shopping district. It was the largest IRA bomb ever detonated in Great Britain, and the largest bomb to explode in Great Britain since the Second World War.

 

Although warnings had been received in the previous hour and had allowed the evacuation of the area, 206 people were recorded by the ambulance service as having been injured. Most windows in nearby buildings were blown out, and falling glass caused the majority of the injuries. No one was killed. The blast was audible over 8 miles (13 km) away in residential neighbourhoods, though workers in the nearby Bridgewater Hall heard nothing, due to the soundproofing."

 

I'm sorry LDV but your an apologist scumbag. Remind me, just how many extremly large explosive devices did the Army plant in high volume shopping areas, at peak time on a saturday? And what were the TERRORISTS hoping to achieve with their extremly big bomb on a shopping high street? Upset a few people? Bollocks. They aimed to kill, maim and injure as many people as possible.

 

From '69 to '01 3523 people were killed. 1855 were civilians and 1123 were from the security forces. Paramilitary groups (Repbulican and Loyalists) making around 500.

 

Now 3523 people x £12,000 = £42,276,000. I wonder where the other £250,000,000 odd is going?

 

Maybe this...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/nor...mpensation.html.

 

The IRA lost any chance of being called freedom fighters when the fuckers started using civilains as "legal" targets. Fuck the lot of them.

[Freggyragh]

Wow, that is a first. A post from MDO that I agree with.

[bluemonday]

One of my closest friends in my teenage years, was murdered by the IRA.

 

He was 20.

 

He left a baby son who was only a few weeks old and a widow.

 

They were teenage sweethearts.

 

I remember the funeral as though it was yesterday.

 

 

 

And now they want to give relatives of murderers compensation?

 

Makes me fucking puke.

[Chinahand]

In my mind the peace process will always be compromised by the refusal of the IRA (and loyalist groups too) to openly join the process.

 

I lived in South Africa during transition - the demobalization of Umkhonto we Sizwe was a big deal, as was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

 

If the IRA, the UDF etc are "legitimate" military organizations which were involved in a political process then they should be demobalized. If their members were involved in unauthorized operations then they should be subject to discipline and the courts either military or civil should be used to do it. Legitimate operations should be acknowledged and laid to rest as a part of the Troubles. And yes illegal state operations like helping loyalist groups etc should be subject to the same standards

 

Doing this should be as public a process as possible and should involve bringing those involved into the state structure. In all seriousness - semi-active IRA members should move into the police service or army, or become entirely inactive.

 

An amnesty should be offered for a full and open acknowledgement of what went on.

 

The IRA should open its accounts and membership roles to independent third parties. There are claims that the IRA has to continue having a role to pay pensions etc to its old members - well the ways the IRA raises its money are dubious in the extreme - those pensions should be transferred to the state and the IRA funding ended.

 

If the IRA is a "legitimate" military organization it should be willing to openly and honestly allow a review of its operations, if it is willing to stand up and say this was a legitimate operation - and a commission agree that a full disclosure of the facts has been made - then an amnesty should be given - even if it is knee capping a teenager, or smuggling drugs or fags to get some money.

 

But investigations of other crimes need to be continued.

 

As long as an open account is given of what they did - I am not adverse to the state paying a widows pension to the wife of a failed bomb maker.

 

But that is the problem - an honest account will never be given. For every military attack on a "legitimate" target there will be a beating of someone suspected of being an informer, the extortion of money, the killing of rivals and blood feuds, and plain mob violence terrorizing a community.

 

In Northern Ireland, these issues are not being openly dealt with and so are being left to fester with continuing anger on both sides of the community.

 

A full and proper Truth and Reconcilliation Commission is, for me, the only way forward. Firing an armalite at a Para is all very "legitimate", but the majority of the violence in Northern Ireland was no where near as glorious and trying to sweep it under the carpet while maintaining the facade of legitimate struggle will go no where quickly.

[jimbms]

Wow, that is a first. A post from MDO that I agree with.

You beat me to that