bazcabs Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 But that's the UK. The IOM may well be different. Well, this was a UK position. Not sure on the differences, but here the minimum statutory is a week per year of service tax free, which for this guy would be more than six months pay. Most employers, particularly in finance, would pay more than statutory, a month or two weeks pay per year, depends. Great if you can get another job right away. Sucks if you can't. IOM redundancy is 1 week per year but max's out at £440 per year, it's only £330 in the UK. It makes a big difference if you have calculated on your real salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think they'd prioritize those that hand't been there as long personally, it's cheaper that way. Not what I've seen. People with experience are far more likely to make a right decision than those who have only been there five minutes. And the company has paid a great deal over the years to nurture that experience to be able to benefit from it. Keep the newbies and you have to fork out the same amount again just to get back to the place you're already at. It's like companies who won't pay the going rate. That makes people leave and to replace them you have to pay the going rate anyway! In between your experience has left you. Luckily for appalling "British Management" quantifying the resultant loss to the bottom line is tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think they'd prioritize those that hand't been there as long personally, it's cheaper that way. Not what I've seen. People with experience are far more likely to make a right decision than those who have only been there five minutes. And the company has paid a great deal over the years to nurture that experience to be able to benefit from it. Keep the newbies and you have to fork out the same amount again just to get back to the place you're already at. It's like companies who won't pay the going rate. That makes people leave and to replace them you have to pay the going rate anyway! In between your experience has left you. Luckily for appalling "British Management" quantifying the resultant loss to the bottom line is tricky. PK this is an important point - companies often want to get rid of the employees who cost more in given jobs - ie the older ones. The consequences are twofold (at least). Firstly trying to operate with fewer staff who have less experience is a recipe for doing things wrongly and having to spend much more on fixing the resultant 'failure costs' - as well as having a bad effect on customer loyalty. Secondly when the business climate improves (hopefully) the lack of sufficient expertise and knowledge can be a real problem in rebuilding a business. Too often businesses promote accountants to senior operational positions and they make decisions on raw numbers rather than on an understanding of the alignment of finance, marketing, customers, technology and the businesses own people. Accountants are excellent advisers but are very often poor strategists and leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Too often businesses promote accountants to senior operational positions and they make decisions on raw numbers rather than on an understanding of the alignment of finance, marketing, customers, technology and the businesses own people. Accountants are excellent advisers but are very often poor strategists and leaders. Oh, no. Accountants make wonderful leaders and strategists. That's why so many are runnning British companies today. Think of "Lord" Simpson of GE/Marconi, and "Sir" Fred the Shred at RBS. Splendid chaps, the pair of them. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Too often businesses promote accountants to senior operational positions and they make decisions on raw numbers rather than on an understanding of the alignment of finance, marketing, customers, technology and the businesses own people. Accountants are excellent advisers but are very often poor strategists and leaders. The days of "Last in First out" are long gone. The biggest problem with accountants is that they know accountancy and basically not much else. In my experience they also seem to struggle dealing with their people. I know we were viewed by the accountants as a SAG cost of about $160,000 pa and not much else! However I was in a corporation that simply couldn't distinguish between management and leadership and how you needed both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Oh, no. Accountants make wonderful leaders and strategists. That's why so many are runnning British companies today. Think of "Lord" Simpson of GE/Marconi, and "Sir" Fred the Shred at RBS. Splendid chaps, the pair of them. S The biggest problem with accountants is that they know accountancy and basically not much else. In my experience they also seem to struggle dealing with their people. I know we were viewed by the accountants as a SAG cost of about $160,000 pa and not much else! However I was in a corporation that simply couldn't distinguish between management and leadership and how you needed both. I wouldn't be so bold as to say that all accountants are bad managers, but... I think it is a natural thing. The personality type that wants a role that focuses on processing detail is not the same type that is good at strategy and people management/leadership. I know a lot of accountants who believe that they are the natural leaders of organisations. The qualification for this is that they 'understand the numbers' - but very often the numbers that accountants understand are the straightforward ones that are easy to measure - talk about customer attitudes or staff morale etc and they say 'oh that is a "soft" issue' which means it is too hard for them to measure and understand so they try to downplay it. I found them enormously helpful (like actuaries) in contributing to an understanding of the picture - but unlikely to be able to give the whole picture. And of course there are always exceptions. So companies should not make staffing issues based on accountancy - a big danger in redundancy situations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Erin Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 50 redundancies announced today. Apparently, they were all voluntary and the offer was oversubscribed. I'm not surprised...those with 3 years service or more were promised at least 7 months redundancy pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Incorrect on both counts Port Erin, must try harder ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I wouldn't be so bold as to say that all accountants are bad managers, but... I know a lot of accountants who believe that they are the natural leaders of organisations. Its rare to work with accountants who can combine business acumen with their accounting skills. I've been lucky enough to work with a few who were very good at what they did, but by and large if you want to strangle a business put an accountant in charge because all they see is cost. Product development costs, sales staff cost, research and development costs, investment in IT systems cost. All the things that you need to grow a successful business make them run screaming from the room in fear because it costs money. The perfect business for an accountant is one employing one person (them) and where the only overheads are a calculator and a phone. The danger in this environment is that everyone sends in the accountant and in 2 years time wonder why they have no staff and no customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I wouldn't be so bold as to say that all accountants are bad managers, but... I know a lot of accountants who believe that they are the natural leaders of organisations. Its rare to work with accountants who can combine business acumen with their accounting skills. I've been lucky enough to work with a few who were very good at what they did, but by and large if you want to strangle a business put an accountant in charge because all they see is cost. Product development costs, sales staff cost, research and development costs, investment in IT systems cost. All the things that you need to grow a successful business make them run screaming from the room in fear because it costs money. The perfect business for an accountant is one employing one person (them) and where the only overheads are a calculator and a phone. The danger in this environment is that everyone sends in the accountant and in 2 years time wonder why they have no staff and no customers. So true. That has been my constant general experience, working with them involved on various projects for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The classic accountant quandary is staff promotion. According to the accountant a member of staff is just as talented at a low grade as a high one, so promoting them takes from the bottom line, no question. They completely fail to see that the return the company is getting at the lower grade will increase commensurate to the rise in grade. Simple terms- On $40k pa they return $80k pa - so it's +$40k to the bottom line. On $50k pa they return $100k pa - so it's +$50k to the bottom line. Accountants don't seem able to grasp that corporations are not actually made up of numbers. They're actually made up of people. Believe me, Harvard has a great deal to answer for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 50 redundancies announced today.Apparently, they were all voluntary and the offer was oversubscribed. I'm not surprised...those with 3 years service or more were promised at least 7 months redundancy pay. First hand reports differ from what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I wouldn't be so bold as to say that all accountants are bad managers, but... I know a lot of accountants who believe that they are the natural leaders of organisations. Its rare to work with accountants who can combine business acumen with their accounting skills. I've been lucky enough to work with a few who were very good at what they did, but by and large if you want to strangle a business put an accountant in charge because all they see is cost. Product development costs, sales staff cost, research and development costs, investment in IT systems cost. All the things that you need to grow a successful business make them run screaming from the room in fear because it costs money. The perfect business for an accountant is one employing one person (them) and where the only overheads are a calculator and a phone. The danger in this environment is that everyone sends in the accountant and in 2 years time wonder why they have no staff and no customers. Quoted again for absolute truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 50 redundancies announced today.Apparently, they were all voluntary and the offer was oversubscribed. I'm not surprised...those with 3 years service or more were promised at least 7 months redundancy pay. First hand reports differ from what you say. Yes indeed, Port Erin has posted a load of unsubstantiated bollocks i'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yes indeed, Port Erin has posted a load of unsubstantiated bollocks i'm afraid. Hope everyone involved gets something sorted anyway, good luck to em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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