thesultanofsheight Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 You haven't addressed my point that the DCS offered very limited cover and was almost irrelevant to people with £400k to invest. I have all along said that it was unwise for people to put all or most of their savings in a high return/high risk account, and the DCS has no bearing on that at all. Why bother I'm not really that interested in the condescending pompous reply your likely to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 You haven't addressed my point that the DCS offered very limited cover and was almost irrelevant to people with £400k to invest. I have all along said that it was unwise for people to put all or most of their savings in a high return/high risk account, and the DCS has no bearing on that at all. Why bother I'm not really that interested in the condescending pompous reply your likely to offer. So it's worked? Great. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yootalkin2me Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't depositing money in banks to earn money from interest...speculating, and doesn't speculating carry the element of risk? Well, if this is the case then surely this is no different than me going into a casino and speculating that if I put all my money on red at the roulette table then this would carry an element of risk...and if the little ball landed on black I would lose all my money...but no worries there because all I have to do is whine and moan that all my money had been lost due to taking a risk and speculating on a certain outcome and then the Government would pay me all the money I had invested or "deposited" in the casino at the tax payers expense....this is feckin' well ridiculous, and I for one am extremely hacked off, you pay yer money and takes yer chances...that's it, if you losse, tough, that's life....this is a feckin joke....and should be stopped immediately....why the hell should my son's future education suffer as a result of a bunch of whining, greedy sore losers??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klimp Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Hang on!!! I made a few crap investments, equities went bankrupt... I WANT MY MONEY BACK... Im not sure how and why the IOM feels they need to fund investors, experienced investers at that...when they choose dodgy investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't depositing money in banks to earn money from interest...speculating Only if you're completely thick you might believe or think that, which clearly you are from the badly thrown together post you managed to muster. I think you might find that most people put money in the bank because the last thing they want to do is speculate with it. The element of speculation comes when you start trying to chase the highest interest rate you can possibly find. It is often the highest because there is a risk associated with it. It gets even more speculative if you start opening foreign currency accounts to chase higher interest rates available in other countries. But some people did this sort of thing - Japanese investing in USD because of low interest rates in Japan (got fingers badly burned), Australians investing in NZD (ditto), UK people taking euro denominated loans. I still find it a bit hard to believe that someone who claims to be a businessman on the website and who has £400K that is his total life savings, would put it all in one bank rather than spread the risk around may be in 3 or 4 banks. The government(s) and the banks have to take a sizeable share of the responsibility but do individuals have no responsibility at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yootalkin2me Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Obviously I am completely thick.....having said that though everything in life is a gamble and when thing's don 't go to plan you really oughtn't go whining about it, you suck it up and plough on, well that's the way I was brought up anyway, when I would come off my horse I was told to get back on and I did, I didn't go crying to someone who would go and ride him for me, maybe I am being too simplistic about this, due to the fact that I am completely thick and these matters are beyond my comprhension...I just thought that my tax dollars along with many others would be put to better use than fluffing up people's investments/deposits...and if it wasn't that speculative then why on earth didn't these people put their money in more established safer banks (if there is/was such a thing)......furthermore I'm pretty sure I wrote "correct me if I'm wrong" and not "insult me personally and my assumed level of intelligence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=32228 I can't decide if this is right or wrong? Sure it's horrible what happened and it's a political nightmare. That said, the money never stayed in the Isle of Man and supported only how many jobs at KSF International? £11 million of Manx tax payers money... gone?! The Isle of Man gets rich by having all these banks on the island and taking money away from other countries' tax systems. Jobs for thousands of people who would be otherwise fishermen, farmers or unemployed (if it weren't for the island's finance system). It's about time the island took some responsibility and accepted they that have to foot the bill if one of the dodgy banks or companies goes under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I just thought that my tax dollars along with many others would be put to better use than fluffing up people's investments/deposits...and if it wasn't that speculative then why on earth didn't these people put their money in more established safer banks (if there is/was such a thing)......furthermore I'm pretty sure I wrote "correct me if I'm wrong" and not "insult me personally and my assumed level of intelligence". The sad fact, as I pointed out earlier on in this thread, is that our government made the promises to these people. What you or anyone else thinks, therefore, is irrelevant because the government said that if a bank failed compensation would be given, and the FSC were charged with deciding how that compensation scheme should operate. If that costs the taxpayer money then maybe the taxpayer should have had a view on this or been consulted at the time. So before you kick off about how unfair it is consider this; you voted them in and they made this commitment on behalf of the Manx taxpayers to bail these banks out up to a maximum level. Its been part of the reason why all these billions have come in to the Island and generated the jobs and the wealth we have all enjoyed in the last 20 years. You can't just turn arround now and say 'fuck them' as like it or not they have made our economy what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yootalkin2me Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I just thought that my tax dollars along with many others would be put to better use than fluffing up people's investments/deposits...and if it wasn't that speculative then why on earth didn't these people put their money in more established safer banks (if there is/was such a thing)......furthermore I'm pretty sure I wrote "correct me if I'm wrong" and not "insult me personally and my assumed level of intelligence". The sad fact, as I pointed out earlier on in this thread, is that our government made the promises to these people. What you or anyone else thinks, therefore, is irrelevant because the government said that if a bank failed compensation would be given, and the FSC were charged with deciding how that compensation scheme should operate. If that costs the taxpayer money then maybe the taxpayer should have had a view on this or been consulted at the time. So before you kick off about how unfair it is consider this; you voted them in and they made this commitment on behalf of the Manx taxpayers to bail these banks out up to a maximum level. Its been part of the reason why all these billions have come in to the Island and generated the jobs and the wealth we have all enjoyed in the last 20 years. You can't just turn arround now and say 'fuck them' as like it or not they have made our economy what it is. I am an electrician so I am working class, I'm also English married to a manx woman and have a manx son....therefore I couldn't give a flying fuck about wether you think I'm kicking off. I also don't vote and this isn't due to apathy it's due to the fact that democracy is a crock of shite, I didn't vote anyone in to compensate greedy fucking money whores and wether or not this island is wealthy from the gazillions of pounds made mostly from ill gotten gains I would always be able to provide for my family and I do say "fuck them" and their three houses, five cars and the fucking rest...and while we're on the subject all this extra money from our economy being what it is just produces more financial waste than you can ever imagine, white elephants, lazy resident people who think they are too fucking good, clever to do the backbone jobs, oh and pointless amounts of tarffic control, an obscene amount of cars..the list is fucking well endless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I am an electrician so I am working class, I'm also English married to a manx woman and have a manx son....therefore I couldn't give a flying fuck about wether you think I'm kicking off. I also don't vote and this isn't due to apathy it's due to the fact that democracy is a crock of shite, I didn't vote anyone in to compensate greedy fucking money whores and wether or not this island is wealthy from the gazillions of pounds made mostly from ill gotten gains I would always be able to provide for my family and I do say "fuck them" and their three houses, five cars and the fucking rest...and while we're on the subject all this extra money from our economy being what it is just produces more financial waste than you can ever imagine, white elephants, lazy resident people who think they are too fucking good, clever to do the backbone jobs, oh and pointless amounts of tarffic control, an obscene amount of cars..the list is fucking well endless! Oh so being a working class non voter exempts you does it? Most of those working in the banks are working class too - and what sort of muppet claims that they have no respoonsibility because they did not vote? Only an idiot in my book. Lets do a little history lesson here and try to remember if we go back to the mid 80s how desperate employment was for everyone including skilled tradesmen. Do you think you'd actually have the chance to make a decent living as an electrician if you were not doing jobs for people employed in the finance sector or working for developers building their houses or offices? If all these billions of bank deposits that have come here (because of the compensation scheme) had not come guess what our economy would offer - jack shit to nobody. You might not remember how bad it was in the 80s but I and other folks do and guess what its going back there. Maybe you might think bailing out has nothing to do with you but it does because we've enjoyed the fruits of other peoples money for decades and its made the IOM a better place to live over the basket case it once was. There is no such thing as a free lunch I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If all these billions of bank deposits that have come here (because of the compensation scheme) You STILL haven't got it, have you? Until recently, the DCS offered 75% of £20,000. That's £15,000. It was almost COMPLETELY irrelevant to the big savers. The man with £400k in KSF still lost more than 96% of his investment, despite the DCS. If you think that's an incentive to invest here, you must be crazy. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yootalkin2me Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Fair enough, I'll consider myself educated from what you scribe in parts....but being pedantic, I as an electrician will always have work due to the unreliabilty of electrical apparatus....faults galore happen all the time and unfortunately bank workers would't have a didgery doo about how to fix 'em I do remember hard times, I lived in yorkshire during the miners strikes and it wasn't a good time but please remember this....a lot of what we consume or buy is very rarely really needed we just buy because it's there and we can....hitting hard times might actually do us all a lot of good, i personally believe we have complacent, I have friends who are brickies, plasters, nurses etc...and they all seriously believe they have a right to live in a £1million house, drive around in £40,000 cars and have 5* holidays in Dubai, even though they are in their early twenties...so a period of hard living will bring this gluttonous society back down to earth and make us appreciate the important things in life...once you have taken care of the basic essentials in life, shelter, food, comfort, security and love you are no happier driving around in a feckin porsche 911, with fake tits and teeth and living in a house with way too many rooms.....so nah, nah, nah, nah nah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't depositing money in banks to earn money from interest...speculating, and doesn't speculating carry the element of risk? Well, if this is the case then surely this is no different than me going into a casino and speculating that if I put all my money on red at the roulette table then this would carry an element of risk...and if the little ball landed on black I would lose all my money...but no worries there because all I have to do is whine and moan that all my money had been lost due to taking a risk and speculating on a certain outcome and then the Government would pay me all the money I had invested or "deposited" in the casino at the tax payers expense....this is feckin' well ridiculous, and I for one am extremely hacked off, you pay yer money and takes yer chances...that's it, if you losse, tough, that's life....this is a feckin joke....and should be stopped immediately....why the hell should my son's future education suffer as a result of a bunch of whining, greedy sore losers??? Hang on!!! I made a few crap investments, equities went bankrupt... I WANT MY MONEY BACK... Im not sure how and why the IOM feels they need to fund investors, experienced investers at that...when they choose dodgy investments. Two frighteningly realistic posts. So . . . . for the Isle of Man to survive we have to show we are the best casino. It is all about greed. greed greed fucking Greed. Nobody does it better. Than the Isle of Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 You STILL haven't got it, have you? Until recently, the DCS offered 75% of £20,000. That's £15,000. It was almost COMPLETELY irrelevant to the big savers. The man with £400k in KSF still lost more than 96% of his investment, despite the DCS. No maybe you don't understand fully. If you anaylse it, what did the DCS actually do for us? 1. Re-habilitate us after the SIB disaster 2. Put Manx banks on a (percieved) equal footing with UK banks as the schemes were the same 3. Allowed IOM accounts to be sold to UK residents as equivalent protection was on offer to a UK deposit taker so it narrowed the risk of investing offshore. 4. Created a veneer of legitimacy that we did not have before Whether it was £30k, £50k or £400k is totally irrelevant. It brought us equivalence with the UK and gave us a percieved marketing edge over the Channel Islands. What is or is not covered in terms of monetary value is actually irrelevant. If you think that's an incentive to invest here, you must be crazy. As stated above it is been clear to me that regardless of the specific compensation offered by the DCS (1 or 2) so much time and effort has been put into marketing the IOM as a safe, secure, well regulated place to do business and that creates a warm feeling in investers minds to the point that they ask less questions. Almost exclusively this image was designed to attract deposits away from Jersey and Guernsey who were and have always been ahead of us by miles but who never pretended they would pick up the tab if anything went wrong. The fact that £30k only was covered is irrelevant - the fact that to the outside world the IOM appeared confident enough (backed by its AAA rating) that it could match the UK in terms of the level of compensation offered is maybe the real issue here that likely brought in the big money. I accept its been smoke and mirrors, but I feel that as a jurisdiction we need to bear some of the responsibility for that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 No maybe you don't understand fully. If you anaylse it, what did the DCS actually do for us? 1. Re-habilitate us after the SIB disaster 2. Put Manx banks on a (percieved) equal footing with UK banks as the schemes were the same 3. It allowed IOM accounts to be sold to UK residents as equivalent protection was on offer to a UK deposit taker so in narrowed the risk of investing offshore. It did nothing of the kind. Other measures helped to rehabilitate the IOM; all the DCS did was provide a guarantee for SMALL savers. That's the bit you don't get. SMALL savers. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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