Stu's Views

[Freggyragh]

A lot of Spaniards still speak strong Southern Manx. There are very few people who speak in strong Northern Manx, but there are a few who speak with the traditional Peel dialect. Most people speak a Southern influenced hybrid dialect which has become a kind of standard.

[MilitantDogOwner]

Is Manx compulsory in school or is it a optional subject?

 

I only ask because my wife (who is Welsh) had no choice in the matter and took Welsh as well as English at school.

 

SHe is very fluent and often speaks it to her Welsh friends back home.

[monasqueen]

[There can be up to 6 Manx speakers in the pub I go to but, for reasons of politeness, they speak English.

 

That is often the case in parts of Wales, too. A place I worked at in South West Wales had a married couple who were Welsh speaking at home, but in the office, where most of the staff were English speakers, they spoke English (even in a one to one conversation) out of politeness.

 

In North Wales, there is a different culture, and where Welsh is the majority language, that is the language that people will use in front of everyone else. Most will, however, speak English to incomers/tourists.

 

My limited Welsh included a phrase that politely asked for English to be spoken to me, and, most important - an order for a couple of pints of beer at a bar

[La_Dolce_Vita]

A lot of Spaniards still speak strong Southern Manx. There are very few people who speak in strong Northern Manx, but there are a few who speak with the traditional Peel dialect. Most people speak a Southern influenced hybrid dialect which has become a kind of standard.

 

Oh ok, so there are strong variances. I wasn't that sure. Which one is that which is taught?

[rockdweller]

Manx isn't compulsory in schools, no. I've read this thread with interest, although I am feeling the undercurrents between known members. I was born here but my parents are English. I lived in England for a year or two when I was very young, before returning and have lived here ever since (nearly 30, that scares me). Unless you take the 5 years at uni into consideration?! I have Australian blood in me somewhere apparently. Not sure that's entirely relevant. I'm as Manx as the hills I'm afraid, in everything I do! Anyway, I've been involved in Manx culture for the last 20 years of my life - I have tried to learn Manx, but I'm afraid I'm completely hopeless at languages. Not that this was the original thread topic, but I'm not sure I'd say Manx is a dead language at all, as some people have pointed out. I went to the pub last Friday and while I was waiting for a well needed pint, I listened to some people in their mid twenties (I think!) having a general conversation in Manx. I know an awful lot of people who speak Manx, but recently, it seems that more of the younger demographic seem to be starting to speak it. I have retained the odd word here and there though - personal favourite is 'scammyltagh' .

[P.K.]

And probably earning a shit load more money than you, more qualified than you, and more travelled than you.

How do you know that?

[MilitantDogOwner]

And probably earning a shit load more money than you, more qualified than you, and more travelled than you.

How do you know that?

 

Well I'm guessing he's probably nothing special by the quality of his posts.

[Snaipyr]

Manx isn't compulsory in schools, no. I've read this thread with interest, although I am feeling the undercurrents between known members. I was born here but my parents are English. I lived in England for a year or two when I was very young, before returning and have lived here ever since (nearly 30, that scares me). Unless you take the 5 years at uni into consideration?! I have Australian blood in me somewhere apparently. Not sure that's entirely relevant. I'm as Manx as the hills I'm afraid, in everything I do! Anyway, I've been involved in Manx culture for the last 20 years of my life - I have tried to learn Manx, but I'm afraid I'm completely hopeless at languages. Not that this was the original thread topic, but I'm not sure I'd say Manx is a dead language at all, as some people have pointed out. I went to the pub last Friday and while I was waiting for a well needed pint, I listened to some people in their mid twenties (I think!) having a general conversation in Manx. I know an awful lot of people who speak Manx, but recently, it seems that more of the younger demographic seem to be starting to speak it. I have retained the odd word here and there though - personal favourite is 'scammyltagh' .

 

You speak English don't you, so you can't be 'hopeless' at languages! Maybe it's just the teaching style that that didn't suit you. I preferred the old-school type of class, but some concentrate on simple conversation - which is, after all, how everyone learns their native language initially. If you're still interested in learning, Adrian Cain's 'Manx Newsletter' gives updates on what's on.

[Sebrof]

Manx isn't compulsory in schools, no. I've read this thread with interest, although I am feeling the undercurrents between known members. I was born here but my parents are English. I lived in England for a year or two when I was very young, before returning and have lived here ever since (nearly 30, that scares me). Unless you take the 5 years at uni into consideration?! I have Australian blood in me somewhere apparently. Not sure that's entirely relevant. I'm as Manx as the hills I'm afraid, in everything I do! Anyway, I've been involved in Manx culture for the last 20 years of my life - I have tried to learn Manx, but I'm afraid I'm completely hopeless at languages. Not that this was the original thread topic, but I'm not sure I'd say Manx is a dead language at all, as some people have pointed out. I went to the pub last Friday and while I was waiting for a well needed pint, I listened to some people in their mid twenties (I think!) having a general conversation in Manx. I know an awful lot of people who speak Manx, but recently, it seems that more of the younger demographic seem to be starting to speak it. I have retained the odd word here and there though - personal favourite is 'scammyltagh' .

 

You speak English don't you, so you can't be 'hopeless' at languages! Maybe it's just the teaching style that that didn't suit you. I preferred the old-school type of class, but some concentrate on simple conversation - which is, after all, how everyone learns their native language initially. If you're still interested in learning, Adrian Cain's 'Manx Newsletter' gives updates on what's on.

 

It has been demonstrated that people have a natural capacity for learning languages up until about twelve or thirteen. After that it becomes much more difficult. People who are lucky enough to be exposed to two or more languages at a very early age become effortlessly bi- or multi-lingual, and often seem to find it easy to acquire other languages thereafter. I had a Moroccan friend who grew up speaking Moroccan, Arabic, Spanish, and French. She added English and German later, but to talk to her (hope she's not reading this) you wouldn't have thought she was especially bright. Currently she is in London, and speaks Estuary English like a native.

 

S

[Freggyragh]

The advantages in learning a language early is that you learn to differentiate the sounds (phonemes) of that language. After the age of seven it is difficult to re-programme our brains to recognize the differences between sounds. For example, a French speaker who learns to differentiate between the 'th' sound and the 'z' sound at an early age is likely to be able to pronounce 'the' correctly, but an adult learner will probably always say 'zee', no matter how good his grammar or vocabulary, the same is true for Japanese speakers - adult Japanese learners of English just can't hear the difference between 'L' and 'R' because the same distinction does not exist in their language. English has quite a wide range of phonemes, but there are plenty of sounds in other European languages that English speakers (unless they have learnt to differentiate them at an early age) will always struggle with. A good example is the Scottish word 'loch' - many monoglot English speakers just cannot pronounce it - so it comes out as 'lock'. Native Scottish Gaelic speakers can differentiate every phoneme of every European language correctly, with the exception of the initial 'dl' found in Slavic languages. Welsh speakers are not far behind. Unfortunately Manx has suffered a bit from phoneme merger and so has slightly fewer distinct sounds than either Scottish Gaelic or Welsh, but is still phoneme rich in comparison to English. Children who are bi-lingual in Manx and English have a huge headstart when it comes to recognizing the sounds of other languages.

 

The good news for those of us who were not exposed to a wide range of phonemes at an early age is that adults are far less self-conscious about getting our tongues around new sounds than children, and we have far better learning skills than children when it comes to grammar and vocabulary. There is no reason why an adult cannot learn a written language far faster than a child, but unfortunately we will struggle with new sounds. When it comes to Manx though, anyone adult who can correctly pronounce most of our placenames and surnames will probably not find the spoken language all that difficult.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Like learning Chinese (Mandarin). I find it very difficult to differentiate between 's' and 'x', and to understand the four tones. No matter how much I try and copy my friend.

[cheesemonster2005]

Giving your child a second language is one of the greatest gifts you can give to a child. Even if parents spoke just a little Manx with their young kids they will make progress. Very young kids have the capacity to learn languages relatively easily. Manx language kindergartens would be great too.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Do you not think that before considering Manx kindergartens, more emphasis should be placed on what are really more useful languages. Let Manx be available to learn, but maybe not enforced.

 

I think it rather 'nice' to maintain the language and is an interesting activity to learn. I also accept that much can be gained. But I am very cynical of any ambitions to make such things compulsory. I suspect that much of the effort is to bring back a dying language largely to restore Manxness for its sake, but this seem a process of reification.

[cheesemonster2005]

The language the child learns isn't important. What is important is to learn a second language. Once you have a good foundation in a second language it becomes easier to learn other languages. Children will be more familiar with the way languages work whatever language they have learnt.

[monasqueen]

If the child has an interest in other languages, that is a bonus. The structure can differ quite a bit, for instance "half past seven" in English is "half to eight" in German.

 

In England if you move from one area to another, place names never seem to be pronounced the way they look, and that is not just down to whether you speak English - dialectual differences come into play.

 

I find it very amusing hearing people trying to pronounce place names that they are not accustomed to. Manx place names are problematic to many - Ballaugh becomes Balla Ugh, and so on. A bit of tutoring in Manx helps enormously if you want to fit in, to learn the roots of the words - Snaefell being Snow Maountain, Laxey is Salmon River, and so on, which to me makes the places more interesting.

 

In Wales Pwllheli often seems to turn into Flewelly. Very few manage Llangollen or Llandudno correctly. A very easy way of spotting the tourist/incomer.