smooks Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The point of my involvement with this thread however is not especially to demonstrate my Manx credentials, it's to take issue with the comeovers who moan about living here. Which I must confess is a pet irritant of mine. My impression is that most of the moaning is done by locals. Comeovers are unlikely to come over if they don't think much of the place. S Perhaps you should re-read this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooks Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yes, and my Dad's side originate from one of the previouly most isolated areas of the Island, Dalby. Nevertheless, the surname used to be Hutchin so I always wonder when the English (or maybe Scottish side came over) But no, it makes sense to call yourself Saxon if you are from Saxony. It is a pet hate of mine too. I hate hearing the Manx whinge about comeovers because of the supposedly apparent problems it has caused and causes and I hate the seeming arrogance of those who believe being English is better than being Manx. When really it doesn't matter in any way. Yeah, but in reality, most Manx don't have a problem with comeovers per se, and most English don't believe being English is better than being Manx - it just seems that way when you read these forums! By the way, the surname Hutchin was spelt in a number of ways, Hudgeon, Hudson etc, but is Manx. There are a lot of surnames that were altered or translated into English, so that they sometimes appear to be of non-Gaelic origin when the opposite is true eg; Nelson, Goldsmith, Walker, Watterson, Morrison etc. This from Surnames & Place-Names of The Isle of Man by A W Moore (one of the founders of The Manx Language Society) 1890: HuTCHiN, HuTCHEN, HuDGEON, from the root hig, Jwg, hug, ' thought,' ' study.' Compare (Scotch) Hutcheon, McHutchin. (Enghsh) Hutchinson. HucHON [151 1], Hutcheon [1540], Hutchin [1570], HUTCHEN [1586], HUDGEON [1785], MacHUTCHIN [i80I]. It is now very uncommon. Formerly © in Marown, German, Rushen, and (u) in Maughold, Malew, Lonan, Arbory, Patrick. There you go LDV - your surname could hardly be more Manx, and hardly more Celtic (no Norse in that name!) And, Sorry Smooks. Haahaha But it can't be Celt, at least according to LDV. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The point of my involvement with this thread however is not especially to demonstrate my Manx credentials, it's to take issue with the comeovers who moan about living here. Which I must confess is a pet irritant of mine. My impression is that most of the moaning is done by locals. Comeovers are unlikely to come over if they don't think much of the place. S Perhaps you should re-read this thread. Perhaps you don't meet enough people. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Shame my great great grandmother changed it from Hutchin to Hudson. And when I think that my family didn't just come from Dalby, but came from the Lagg, hidden away in the valley they may have been living there for a very long time. I do have Leslie Quilliam's book "Surnames of the Manks" and that is how I came under the impression that it was not Manx. Very interesting. Will have to buy that book if it comes up on Ebay. But Goldsmith and Morrisson are not English names? Oh right. Smooks - it doesn't make me a Celt though. It just means my name originates from the Isle of Man where the language was of the celtic 'branch' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooks Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The point of my involvement with this thread however is not especially to demonstrate my Manx credentials, it's to take issue with the comeovers who moan about living here. Which I must confess is a pet irritant of mine. My impression is that most of the moaning is done by locals. Comeovers are unlikely to come over if they don't think much of the place. S Perhaps you should re-read this thread. Perhaps you don't meet enough people. S You didn't re-read the thread then? As I've already said, I have no problem with comeovers whatsoever, neither do most Manx I know either. Do you actually know any Manx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 So, at the end of the day, you're not an anarchist at all are you, you are an imperialist. I speak a few languages, and the fascinating thing about languages is the unique way of describing the world that each carries. The imperial languages have remarkably similar outlooks. I prefer speaking Manx because the language is free from a lot of what I dislike about modern English. Not an imperialist, but I recognise that Manx is a dead language and has no value as a tool to be used when communicating with people of others cultures. It was a victim of imperialism, but languages do not necessarily become supplanted or die out because of imperialism. Would you agree? I really want to learn though, but now at the moment. But what is Manx free from? Manx is a dead language to you, but not to me. It has considerable value as a tool when communicating with speakers of Irish and Scottish Gaelic. What value does English have as a tool for communicating with people of other cultures except to demand that they use your language? I always found it best to avoid English when communicating with speakers of other languages because they have often studied English for longer than you have studied their language, and you will likely end up speaking English and missing out on learning anything much of theirs. To address your last question, you need to be able to look at English from the outside to analyze it, I can't do that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Erin Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 So, at the end of the day, you're not an anarchist at all are you, you are an imperialist. I speak a few languages, and the fascinating thing about languages is the unique way of describing the world that each carries. The imperial languages have remarkably similar outlooks. I prefer speaking Manx because the language is free from a lot of what I dislike about modern English. Not an imperialist, but I recognise that Manx is a dead language and has no value as a tool to be used when communicating with people of others cultures. It was a victim of imperialism, but languages do not necessarily become supplanted or die out because of imperialism. Would you agree? I really want to learn though, but now at the moment. But what is Manx free from? Manx is a dead language to you, but not to me. It has considerable value as a tool when communicating with speakers of Irish and Scottish Gaelic. What value does English have as a tool for communicating with people of other cultures except to demand that they use your language? I always found it best to avoid English when communicating with speakers of other languages because they have often studied English for longer than you have studied their language, and you will likely end up speaking English and missing out on learning anything much of theirs. To address your last question, you need to be able to look at English from the outside to analyze it, I can't do that for you. English is the language of business, and is used as a universal tool for communication with people of other cultures. Manx is a dead language, and serves no useful purpose. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooks Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 So, at the end of the day, you're not an anarchist at all are you, you are an imperialist. I speak a few languages, and the fascinating thing about languages is the unique way of describing the world that each carries. The imperial languages have remarkably similar outlooks. I prefer speaking Manx because the language is free from a lot of what I dislike about modern English. Not an imperialist, but I recognise that Manx is a dead language and has no value as a tool to be used when communicating with people of others cultures. It was a victim of imperialism, but languages do not necessarily become supplanted or die out because of imperialism. Would you agree? I really want to learn though, but now at the moment. But what is Manx free from? Manx is a dead language to you, but not to me. It has considerable value as a tool when communicating with speakers of Irish and Scottish Gaelic. What value does English have as a tool for communicating with people of other cultures except to demand that they use your language? I always found it best to avoid English when communicating with speakers of other languages because they have often studied English for longer than you have studied their language, and you will likely end up speaking English and missing out on learning anything much of theirs. To address your last question, you need to be able to look at English from the outside to analyze it, I can't do that for you. English is the language of business, and is used as a universal tool for communication with people of other cultures. Manx is a dead language, and serves no useful purpose. Get over it. You are English and a comeover! Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I merely meant the relative importance of being able to speak French or German as opposed to Manx. Well ok, yes it has some value. But a Frenchman learning Manx would only be able to converse with a very small group of people. But I see what you mean with our example. Sorry, I really find it interesting, is Irish or Scottish Gaelic going to be easier to learn if you speak Manx already or is there not much in it? And has Irish become standardised now, i.e. is there just the one language, because I know that east Ulster gaelic used to even a little different to that spoken in Donegal, which used to be different from that spoken in Munster. (Am I being bad and disgressing too much?) Do you teach Manx then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Shame my great great grandmother changed it from Hutchin to Hudson. And when I think that my family didn't just come from Dalby, but came from the Lagg, hidden away in the valley they may have been living there for a very long time. I do have Leslie Quilliam's book "Surnames of the Manks" and that is how I came under the impression that it was not Manx. Very interesting. Will have to buy that book if it comes up on Ebay. But Goldsmith and Morrisson are not English names? Oh right. Smooks - it doesn't make me a Celt though. It just means my name originates from the Isle of Man where the language was of the celtic 'branch' Goldsmith is translated from Teare. One branch of the Teares were orginally called MacTeerboy / Mac y Teyir Buigh which means literally 'Son of the Yellow Craftsman,' or 'Son of the Craftsman of Yellow'. Morrison is translated from Mylvoirrey / Mac Gil Voirrey - 'Son of the devotee of Mary'. Lag / Lagg means 'hollow' in Manx. Were your family weavers by any chance? If so, there's at least one story, and a song, about your ancestors you might be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Erin Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 So, at the end of the day, you're not an anarchist at all are you, you are an imperialist. I speak a few languages, and the fascinating thing about languages is the unique way of describing the world that each carries. The imperial languages have remarkably similar outlooks. I prefer speaking Manx because the language is free from a lot of what I dislike about modern English. Not an imperialist, but I recognise that Manx is a dead language and has no value as a tool to be used when communicating with people of others cultures. It was a victim of imperialism, but languages do not necessarily become supplanted or die out because of imperialism. Would you agree? I really want to learn though, but now at the moment. But what is Manx free from? Manx is a dead language to you, but not to me. It has considerable value as a tool when communicating with speakers of Irish and Scottish Gaelic. What value does English have as a tool for communicating with people of other cultures except to demand that they use your language? I always found it best to avoid English when communicating with speakers of other languages because they have often studied English for longer than you have studied their language, and you will likely end up speaking English and missing out on learning anything much of theirs. To address your last question, you need to be able to look at English from the outside to analyze it, I can't do that for you. English is the language of business, and is used as a universal tool for communication with people of other cultures. Manx is a dead language, and serves no useful purpose. Get over it. You are English and a comeover! Get over it. I accept that I am English and a comeover. However, I also accept that English is the language of business, and is used as a universal tool for communication with people of other cultures. Manx is a dead language, and serves no useful purpose. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theman Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Shame my great great grandmother changed it from Hutchin to Hudson. And when I think that my family didn't just come from Dalby, but came from the Lagg, hidden away in the valley they may have been living there for a very long time. I do have Leslie Quilliam's book "Surnames of the Manks" and that is how I came under the impression that it was not Manx. Very interesting. Will have to buy that book if it comes up on Ebay. But Goldsmith and Morrisson are not English names? Oh right. Smooks - it doesn't make me a Celt though. It just means my name originates from the Isle of Man where the language was of the celtic 'branch' Goldsmith is translated from Teare. One branch of the Teares were orginally called MacTeerboy / Mac y Teyir Buigh which means literally 'Son of the Yellow Craftsman,' or 'Son of the Craftsman of Yellow'. Morrison is translated from Mylvoirrey / Mac Gil Voirrey - 'Son of the devotee of Mary'. Lag / Lagg means 'hollow' in Manx. Were your family weavers by any chance? If so, there's at least one story, and a song, about your ancestors you might be interested in. ha ha ha mine is mckay dont look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I merely meant the relative importance of being able to speak French or German as opposed to Manx. Well ok, yes it has some value. But a Frenchman learning Manx would only be able to converse with a very small group of people. But I see what you mean with our example. Sorry, I really find it interesting, is Irish or Scottish Gaelic going to be easier to learn if you speak Manx already or is there not much in it? And has Irish become standardised now, i.e. is there just the one language, because I know that east Ulster gaelic used to even a little different to that spoken in Donegal, which used to be different from that spoken in Munster. (Am I being bad and disgressing too much?) Do you teach Manx then? Manx vocabulary and grammar is 80% the same as Scottish Gaelic, but the pronunciation is quite different. Donegal Irish pronunciation is much closer to Manx, but the verb tenses operate differently. Irish dialects are diverse, but they are not different languages. If you want to learn a bit about Manx try learnmanx.com and if you get anywhere with it pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Lag / Lagg means 'hollow' in Manx. Were your family weavers by any chance? If so, there's at least one story, and a song, about your ancestors you might be interested in. No idea. I believe they came from Ballahutchin farm, if I remember right from what my grandad told me. And one side of the family at one stage were Hutchins and the other Kennaughs. And they lived in Lagg (pretty sure the Kennaughs did) or in the area between the village and Traie Vane. But I would suppose that the Hutchins living in the Lagg were at some stage my ancestors or distant family. But I was told by my grandad that there were apparently FIFTY families living in the Lagg area alone a few centuries ago. Would love to read the story, or any info you have about Hutchins, the Lagg, and Traie Vane. Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Erin Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 FFS...we digress. WTF has this got to do with Stu Peters claiming to be Manx? He's lived here 12 years...as someone noted earlier, if he lived in China for 12 years, would he think he was Chinese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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