Pragmatopian Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 *throws in the towel* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 throws in the ignore button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 throws in the ignore button [misquote name=Not Samuel Johnson' date='Ages ago]The ignore button is the last refuge of a scoundrel.[/misquote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 A beginning would be for workers to take control of the workplaces themselves. Wages should be abolished. Government as it is today should be abolished with their replacement possibily by workers councils. Wages should be abolished? Oh yes a very sensible idea, that'll bring about an anarchy pretty quickly I can assure you. I'm not really sure how you think the workers should take over their workplaces - and how would workers councils be better than say castletown commissioners in deciding how to organize the bin collection. Sounds a great plan to transform society - NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 A beginning would be for workers to take control of the workplaces themselves. Wages should be abolished. Government as it is today should be abolished with their replacement possibily by workers councils. Wages should be abolished? Oh yes a very sensible idea, that'll bring about an anarchy pretty quickly I can assure you. I'm not really sure how you think the workers should take over their workplaces - and how would workers councils be better than say castletown commissioners in deciding how to organize the bin collection. Sounds a great plan to transform society - NOT. Workers already take over their workplaces in the current system. It's called promotion, and it's based on ability so that the best people become leaders, and the worst remain doing the menial tasks. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 A beginning would be for workers to take control of the workplaces themselves. Wages should be abolished. Government as it is today should be abolished with their replacement possibily by workers councils. Wages should be abolished? Oh yes a very sensible idea, that'll bring about an anarchy pretty quickly I can assure you. I'm not really sure how you think the workers should take over their workplaces - and how would workers councils be better than say castletown commissioners in deciding how to organize the bin collection. Sounds a great plan to transform society - NOT. No, they are steps to democracy. The supposed idea is to educate about anarchism and spread libertarian attitudes first. You have to have a large proportion of the populace who will simulataneously in take control of the workplaces by making them democratic rejecting the employers ownership of that company. Workers councils would make deicsions within the workplace but will also have the function of communicating with other workplaces. Something like bin collections could be organised by the 'workplace' and worker responsible for collecting it. But none of these things could possibly come about on their own. There would have to be a revolution that removes capitalism. Othrwise the police would enforce ownership of companies, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 LDV - have you ever studied microeconomics? Really basic stuff like indifference curves - ie you would be basically indifferent if you were offered either 3 eggs and 1 bap, or 1 egg and 2 baps, but would prefer 3 eggs over 1 bap. The power of these ideas is that if you start with a simple principle like that you can derive demand curves, then with some knowledge of how difficult it is to actually supply these items you get a supply curve. When you have both a demand for, and a supply of, an item you have a market. You don't actually need money, or wages, to generate these ideas - they come purely out of people needing different things at different times and hence being willing to exchange to meet their needs. How do people work together to supply each according to their needs - through acknowledging that people have differential needs (and hence an indifference curve) and adjust these needs depending on the effort it takes to get the good. You seem to entirely discount these ideas, but they are some of the most powerful principles that exist. I cannot see how educating people about anarchism and libertarian attitudes can change these ideas. Especially when you have never explained how you actually educate people in anarchism and libertarianism. You are just mouthing meaningless words. How will these meaningless words change an indifference curve? Or stop people wanting to enter into exchanges of items based on their differential needs? Cos if they don't change these things you will get markets, and supply and demand, and that is basically all capitalism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Nothing wrong with the principles of supply and demand. The problem is about the denial and retractions of freedoms once profitmaking and property ownership enter into it. This is when libertarian and anarchism comes in because it is based upon recognising a massive importance of control over one's own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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