National Dishes Which Aren't

[Domino]

Please don't tell me that meat pies are foreign

[keyboarder]

You would have been lucky to sample quality Manx beef in the Isle of Man. All of the best stuff has been exported for years. We only get let with the crap frankly.

Are you the ACTUAL proverbial bloke down the pub? Your hypotheses make you a firm favourite.

 

Stick to a butcher you know and who knows the farmer, or is the farmer. Avoid supermarket meat.

I agree that it is a good idea to develop a rapport with one or two independent butchers. Nevertheless, there is good quality meat to be had in the island's supermarkets. Ballacushag beef at Shoprite for one, Manx meat products at Tesco for another. You might have to develop some quality identification skills of your own but, why, only yesterday I prepared a splendid Beef Stroganoff using fillet steak sourced from a local supermarket for several lovers of fine dining. And every plate went back to my kitchen cleaned. (Licked probably, while I wasn't looking, lol,lol....... ; ))

[Sebrof]

And spaghetti. Brought to Italy from China by Marco Polo.

 

S

Pure myth.

 

 

The first certain record of noodles cooked by boiling is in the Jerusalem Talmud, written in Aramaic in the 5th century AD. The word used for the noodles was itriyah. In Arabic references this word stands for the dried noodles purchased from a vendor, rather than homemade noodles which would have been fresh. Dried noodles are portable, while fresh must be eaten immediately. More than likely, pasta was introduced during the Arab conquests of Sicily, carried in as a dry staple. The Arab geographer, Al Idrisi wrote that a flour-based product in the shape of strings was produced in Palermo, then an Arab colony.

 

There is some disagreement on that point. Noodles were written about in China rather earlier than 500AD, and some 4,000 year old noodles were discovered in a well-known Chinese restaurant in Douglas sorry, in Qinghai, China.

 

But I am sure you are right that Arabs brought pasta to Italy.

 

S

[Sebrof]

I have a cracking recipe for Beef Oxford, very English sounding recipe. I had something very similar in Ypres but can't for the life of me remember what it was called. It went very well with a big bowl of chips. It involves green peppars, apricot jam and lots of ginger. If anyone could help me with the Flemish name of this dish I'll then post something relevant.

 

Maybe?

 

The only Flemish beef recipe I know is the Carbonade de boeuf a la Flamande. Best made with Newky Brown, and absolutely delicious.

 

S

[manshimajin]

Please don't tell me that meat pies are foreign

Domino I hate to tell you this but the meat pie sounds to have been a Greek invention.....and brought to Britannia by the Romans

Found on a website abut the History of Pies:

 

Historians have recorded that the roots of pie can loosely be traced back to the ancient Egyptians. The bakers to the pharaohs incorporated nuts, honey, and fruits in bread dough, a primitive form of pastry. Drawings of this can be found etched on the tomb walls of Ramses II, located in the Valley of the Kings. King Ramses II was the third pharoh in the nineteenth dynasty. He ruled from 1304 to 1237 B.C. After years of the tombe being looted and weathered, great amounts of effort are in progress with the hope of returning the tomb to a somewhat presentable stage.

 

Historians believe that the Greeks actually originated pie pastry. The pies during this period were made by a flour-water paste wrapped around meat; this served to cook the meat and seal in the juices.

 

The Romans, sampling the delicacy, carried home recipes for making it (a prize of victory when they conquered Greece). The wealthy and educated Romans used various types of meat in every course of the meal, including the dessert course (secundae mensea). According to historical records, oysters, mussels, lampreys, and other meats and fish were normal in Roman puddings. It is thought that the puddings were a lot like pies..

 

The Roman statesman, Marcus Porcius Cato (234-149 B.C.), also know as Cato the Elder, wrote a treatise on agriculture called De Agricultura. He loved delicacies and recorded a recipe for his era's most popular pie/cake called Placenta. They were also called libum by the Romans, and were primarily used as an offering to their gods. Placenta was more like a cheesecake, baked on a pastry base, or sometimes inside a pastry case.

 

The delights of the pie spread throughout Europe, via the Roman roads, where every country adapted the recipes to their customs and foods.

mind you - who invented Tomato sauce ? probably the Yanks?

[mollag]

. . . . .

 

You'll probably find about 80% of Manx in Irish language dictionaries. 'Fella' and "Heyy Boyy" are Anglicized Manx Gaelic.

 

I can't agree. 'Fella' as used in its present context seems to be quite recent (such as 'the young fella' or 'the quair fella' maybe, but for example 'alright fella' seems to be a scouserism).

 

You'll be telling me that Andreas should be pronounce And-rus next.

I always thought Fellah to be Indian/ arabic, brought back by the squadies -terms like bint, jildy, buckshee and malum all have eastern roots----kip for example is Indian, a rough sleeping pallet found in brothels---luvvly!

[Freggyragh]

. . . . .

 

You'll probably find about 80% of Manx in Irish language dictionaries. 'Fella' and "Heyy Boyy" are Anglicized Manx Gaelic.

 

I can't agree. 'Fella' as used in its present context seems to be quite recent (such as 'the young fella' or 'the quair fella' maybe, but for example 'alright fella' seems to be a scouserism).

 

You'll be telling me that Andreas should be pronounce And-rus next.

I always thought Fellah to be Indian/ arabic, brought back by the squadies -terms like bint, jildy, buckshee and malum all have eastern roots----kip for example is Indian, a rough sleeping pallet found in brothels---luvvly!

 

From Cregeen's 1835 Manx - English dictionary:

 

Feallagh - folk, or folks.

 

Also, the Manx the word 'fer' means 'fellow' but can also be applied to non-human and inanimate objects - almost exactly as 'fella' is used in Manx English.

 

I've already explained on a previous thread that 'And-rus' is the correct pronunciation. If you believe the pronunciation of Manx place-names should now be based on English prosody, fine, but why don't you go the whole way and call it St Andrews?

[Sebrof]

I always thought Fellah to be Indian/ arabic, brought back by the squadies -terms like bint, jildy, buckshee and malum all have eastern roots----kip for example is Indian, a rough sleeping pallet found in brothels---luvvly!

 

I suspect you were basing that on the spelling - like punkah, verandah, etc.

 

But fellah is just a corruption of fellow. It's easier to say.

 

As Fregg will no doubt tell you, it's originally Norse.

 

S

[mollag]

Fellah (Arabic: فلاح‎) (plural Fellahin, فلاحين) is a peasant, farmer or agricultural laborer in the Middle East. The word derives from the Arabic word for ploughman or tiller. During the time of the spread of Islam, it was used to distinguish between Arab settlers who were usually nomadic (i.e, bedouin), and the indigenous rural population (i.e, fellahin) of the conquered territories, such as the Egyptians and the Syriacs of the Levant.

 

 

Thats the one i was thinking of but a corruption of fellow does seem reasonable also.

[Sebrof]

Fellah (Arabic: فلاح‎) (plural Fellahin, فلاحين) is a peasant, farmer or agricultural laborer in the Middle East. The word derives from the Arabic word for ploughman or tiller. During the time of the spread of Islam, it was used to distinguish between Arab settlers who were usually nomadic (i.e, bedouin), and the indigenous rural population (i.e, fellahin) of the conquered territories, such as the Egyptians and the Syriacs of the Levant.

 

 

Thats the one i was thinking of but a corruption of fellow does seem reasonable also.

 

Fascinating subject. Always something new.

 

S

[xbones]

And every plate went back to my kitchen cleaned. (Licked probably, while I wasn't looking, lol,lol....... ; ))

 

Perhaps cooking enough food and not leaving your dining guests so hungry that they have to lick their plates might be a good idea for next time, eh?

[manxman2]

Just returning from a tour of SE Asia where dog is a popular if not national dish

 

The lurcher types were a bit chewy (when you could catch one ) but the small furry cuddly ones just melted in the mouth

 

Could someone please post a link to this on the "why I hate militant dog owner" thread

 

now they know how it feels to get bitten on..

 

what do the little white ones taste like..

[manxman2]

Please don't tell me that meat pies are foreign

Domino I hate to tell you this but the meat pie sounds to have been a Greek invention.....and brought to Britannia by the Romans

Found on a website abut the History of Pies:

 

Historians have recorded that the roots of pie can loosely be traced back to the ancient Egyptians. The bakers to the pharaohs incorporated nuts, honey, and fruits in bread dough, a primitive form of pastry. Drawings of this can be found etched on the tomb walls of Ramses II, located in the Valley of the Kings. King Ramses II was the third pharoh in the nineteenth dynasty. He ruled from 1304 to 1237 B.C. After years of the tombe being looted and weathered, great amounts of effort are in progress with the hope of returning the tomb to a somewhat presentable stage.

 

Historians believe that the Greeks actually originated pie pastry. The pies during this period were made by a flour-water paste wrapped around meat; this served to cook the meat and seal in the juices.

 

The Romans, sampling the delicacy, carried home recipes for making it (a prize of victory when they conquered Greece). The wealthy and educated Romans used various types of meat in every course of the meal, including the dessert course (secundae mensea). According to historical records, oysters, mussels, lampreys, and other meats and fish were normal in Roman puddings. It is thought that the puddings were a lot like pies..

 

The Roman statesman, Marcus Porcius Cato (234-149 B.C.), also know as Cato the Elder, wrote a treatise on agriculture called De Agricultura. He loved delicacies and recorded a recipe for his era's most popular pie/cake called Placenta. They were also called libum by the Romans, and were primarily used as an offering to their gods. Placenta was more like a cheesecake, baked on a pastry base, or sometimes inside a pastry case.

 

The delights of the pie spread throughout Europe, via the Roman roads, where every country adapted the recipes to their customs and foods.

mind you - who invented Tomato sauce ? probably the Yanks?

 

i would go the french..

[keyboarder]

So...define 'Faggot' for me.

 

From Wikipedia . . .

 

Faggot or fagot may refer to:

 

Faggot (slang), a pejorative for a homosexual or effeminate man used mainly in North America

Faggot (food), a British meatball commonly made of pork offal

Faggot (volume), an archaic unit of measurement for bundles of sticks

Faggot (wood) (or fagot), bundle of sticks or branches

Faggots (novel), a novel by Larry Kramer

Faggoting (metalworking), a metalworking technique

Faggoting, a knitting term (see Basic knitted fabrics#Faggoting)

Faggot stitch, a traditional embroidery stitch also known as Straight Open Cretan

Ashen faggot (or ashton fagot), a British Christmas tradition

Fire and Faggot Parliament, an English Parliament of 1414.

 

How educational. So which one was Mr Charity referring to then?

[keyboarder]

My money's on the first one.