La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Frankly, who cares If any sad case wants to track my movements, then please feel free.... There is more to life than worrying about who is watching who. ...and that eye is really creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Frankly, who cares If any sad case wants to track my movements, then please feel free.... There is more to life than worrying about who is watching who. If you let this one slip, what will be the next step, and the step? What about future generations who are brought up in a country where they think the state should be doing these things. The problem we have is that we actually think it is acceptable for the UK government to have ability to hold such information, never mind what they are using it for. this guy is right .. these attention seeking leaks are a divertary tactic to try and shift our mass attention away from other areas of government failure. .. Why would the media do that? If they lackeys of the government, they would do the opposite, not compound the failure of government. just maybe they thought the press would jump at a story they could sensatoinalise .. would they have been wrong. and how is it a failure of government...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 just maybe they thought the press would jump at a story they could sensatoinalise .. would they have been wrong. and how is it a failure of government...??? I just thought you meant attempts by the media to shift attention from bugger issues. No it isn't a failure of government, it is characteristic of it, you are correct to point that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 youve obviously never heard of the BBC .. browns broadcasting company.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lao Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 ok let's say we are sold on the idea that the government is using 1984 as a blueprint to slowly move us towards a totalitarian state and it must be stopped. What now?, is there a petition to sign? a facebook page we can become members of? any protest marches or demonstrations being organised? If not should i now be trying to establish myself in some sort of position of power so that i may be one of the controllers rather than the controlled. you maybe smart but your lacking humour.. its worse than that, i'm not even that smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 ok let's say we are sold on the idea that the government is using 1984 as a blueprint to slowly move us towards a totalitarian state and it must be stopped. What now?, is there a petition to sign? a facebook page we can become members of? any protest marches or demonstrations being organised?If not should i now be trying to establish myself in some sort of position of power so that i may be one of the controllers rather than the controlled. you maybe smart but your lacking humour.. its worse than that, i'm not even that smart. they are illegal now under new labour you know.. and your humour was just lurking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronague Ram Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 spam is just one harmful bloody waste of time effect of massive databases.. medical treatments and decisions would be made judged on your life style even more than they are now etc.. harmless my fuckin arse.. What a total pile of crap! If you book online you often give an e-mail address - how is that less risky for the spam argument? Who says your e-mail address is required to pass through a border? This is simply proof of the identity provided. Passenger manifests are surely already available if required, but how the hell can these help to identify the criminal element if they give false names etc? And just how are medical treatments coming into this? How is this a lifestyle assesment? It look like a check being put in place to identify those who may have harmed or seek to harm others by criminal means. I think victims would be a damn site more comfortable if these basic checks were in place and could be checked in the light of a matter coming to light rather than saying 'we don't know who has come to or gone from our country'. I also hear the argument that this is not aimed at prevention of crime. Surely knowing that Mr A. Shitbag or Mr P.Dofile has arived on your shores at least gives opportunity for prevention to take place. As for the Hebridean ferry company argument in a previous post you also miss the point - don't be so full of self importance - its not you that the system is ever designed to identify. The system is put in place to identify scum - criminals, terrorists and the likes. Not Mr Joe Bloggs off to the Scottish Isles for a break, and certainly not to see if Mr P.Oorly is worthy of his medical treatment due to his lifestyle - when time and resources are stretched who really could give a shit about the likes of us? Given mystic meg won't sit at the ports identifying these wrongdoers or wrongdoers to be, how else do you propose it is done? I for one would want this basic system in place. I just hope the Manx ports are equally subject to this UK initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Passenger manifests are surely already available if required, but how the hell can these help to identify the criminal element if they give false names etc? It look like a check being put in place to identify those who may have harmed or seek to harm others by criminal means. I think victims would be a damn site more comfortable if these basic checks were in place and could be checked in the light of a matter coming to light rather than saying 'we don't know who has come to or gone from our country'. I also hear the argument that this is not aimed at prevention of crime. Surely knowing that Mr A. Shitbag or Mr P.Dofile has arived on your shores at least gives opportunity for prevention to take place. But how do you establish what the 'criminal element' is when it passes from Manchester to London? People do not know who moves from area to another within a country, why have measures to monitor movements between countries? And what is the criminal element? Those who plan to commit a crime? They haven't committed one YET so the acceptability of monitoring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 ok let's say we are sold on the idea that the government is using 1984 as a blueprint to slowly move us towards a totalitarian state and it must be stopped I do not believe that anyone is suggesting that, to be fair. More like 1984 is used as a lazy metaphor for what people perceive as a system of control rather than a system of light government. Personally I also believe that the rise of the state is worrying. The tighter the control of the state, the more people are likely to begin to feel uneasy about society in general and will want to exist outside of the grid, to resist. IMO that is dangerous to the society. is there ... a facebook page we can become members of? Conspiracists have suggested that Facebook and other social networking groups already represent fantastic tools for tracking the connections between people. Eg this link blogger Josh Smith theorized that Facebook could actually be a data-gathering operation. He determined that Facebook received its initial funding from Peter Thiel, which he named as co-author of the book "The Diversity Myth", which argues that "multiculturalism" is used to promote social intolerance on American college campuses. Smith also found that Facebook also received $13 million in funding from "Accel Partners", a firm whose manager James Breyer formerly served as the chairman of In-Q-Tel, a venture capital firm operated by the United States Central Intelligence Agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronague Ram Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 But how do you establish what the 'criminal element' is when it passes from Manchester to London? People do not know who moves from area to another within a country, why have measures to monitor movements between countries? And what is the criminal element? Those who plan to commit a crime? They haven't committed one YET so the acceptability of monitoring? Internal country movements of individuals are not relevant to this debate about border monitoring. They may not have commited any crime yet - but surely we need to at least have a stable door to give a chance of closing it before the horse bolts? You sound like you don't want any checks and terrorists and criminals should have free and untraceable movement. Tell us please just how you would deal with these real concerns if it was your responsibility? Most people commiting offences will attempt to cover their tracks and I'm sure giving false details to ferry companies whilst fleeing the counry is just one example of where this could be an issue. What if the murderer/paedophile on the run from one country passes clean through into the next with no way of knowing? Borders are surely one area that this sort of low life (not Joe Bloggs on a buisness trip, or little Jimmy off to Disneyland) could be intercepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 spam is just one harmful bloody waste of time effect of massive databases.. medical treatments and decisions would be made judged on your life style even more than they are now etc.. harmless my fuckin arse.. What a total pile of crap! If you book online you often give an e-mail address - how is that less risky for the spam argument? Who says your e-mail address is required to pass through a border? This is simply proof of the identity provided. Passenger manifests are surely already available if required, but how the hell can these help to identify the criminal element if they give false names etc? And just how are medical treatments coming into this? How is this a lifestyle assesment? It look like a check being put in place to identify those who may have harmed or seek to harm others by criminal means. I think victims would be a damn site more comfortable if these basic checks were in place and could be checked in the light of a matter coming to light rather than saying 'we don't know who has come to or gone from our country'. I also hear the argument that this is not aimed at prevention of crime. Surely knowing that Mr A. Shitbag or Mr P.Dofile has arived on your shores at least gives opportunity for prevention to take place. As for the Hebridean ferry company argument in a previous post you also miss the point - don't be so full of self importance - its not you that the system is ever designed to identify. The system is put in place to identify scum - criminals, terrorists and the likes. Not Mr Joe Bloggs off to the Scottish Isles for a break, and certainly not to see if Mr P.Oorly is worthy of his medical treatment due to his lifestyle - when time and resources are stretched who really could give a shit about the likes of us? Given mystic meg won't sit at the ports identifying these wrongdoers or wrongdoers to be, how else do you propose it is done? I for one would want this basic system in place. I just hope the Manx ports are equally subject to this UK initiative. where did i mention email spam isnt just a net problem .. mass databases can and will be exploited by both government and outside agencies. and i truly believe that the type and cost of treatments the brits recieve from their nhs are dependent on their future worth to the british econonomy/tax system. .. mass data collection makes it easier to distinquish. .. not withstanding the ease with which these databases are stolen or leaked to third parties and used for targetted advertising or worse major frauds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'd love to say it was for a valid reason but the more and more I read stuff like this, the more LDV's statements start to make sense. Well that's me labeled now and every move I make will probably be followed from now on, if not already. Maybe they should just get the hooha out of the way and stick tracking devices in our arms (left arm isn't it?) and give the power to 'those' who despise other people who want freedom. Who said 'knowledge is power'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronague Ram Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 mass databases can and will be exploited by both government and outside agencies. and i truly believe that the type and cost of treatments the brits recieve from their nhs are dependent on their future worth to the british econonomy/tax system. .. Put the bong down - you've clearly been using cannabis far too long! Your GP can prescribe medication for your paranoia. Bet your favourite film is Conspiracy Theory!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 you would bet wrong .. and ridicule is the defence used by the clueless... experience is how and what i base my personal views on .. not newspapers or tinternet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 But how do you establish what the 'criminal element' is when it passes from Manchester to London? People do not know who moves from area to another within a country, why have measures to monitor movements between countries? And what is the criminal element? Those who plan to commit a crime? They haven't committed one YET so the acceptability of monitoring? Internal country movements of individuals are not relevant to this debate about border monitoring. They may not have commited any crime yet - but surely we need to at least have a stable door to give a chance of closing it before the horse bolts? You sound like you don't want any checks and terrorists and criminals should have free and untraceable movement. Tell us please just how you would deal with these real concerns if it was your responsibility? Most people commiting offences will attempt to cover their tracks and I'm sure giving false details to ferry companies whilst fleeing the counry is just one example of where this could be an issue. What if the murderer/paedophile on the run from one country passes clean through into the next with no way of knowing? Borders are surely one area that this sort of low life (not Joe Bloggs on a buisness trip, or little Jimmy off to Disneyland) could be intercepted. I think it is relevant as I believe borders should be done away with. If he is 'on the run' then it would have been up to that other nation to maintain supervision of the person on bail. Whereas if it is a murdered or paedophile, already convicted and served their time they need not be monitored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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