La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 With him having such an ignorant and very backward perspective on the matter do you think this bigoted MHK should be allowed to continue in Government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 As he did not, as far as I know, use any derogatory terms in doing so, he has every right to state his opinion. He does not, however, have the right to declare that "I represent my constituents and the majority of them will agree with what I said." That is making a very large assumption since it is clearly impossible to know whether or not a majority support his views on a issue on which they were not consulted. That is pure arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knoxville Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 So say a woman had a sex change and then becomes a man. They then marry a woman, is that a civil partnership or a marriage? Also isnt keyboarder a tranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendytoy Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 "He urged members to be careful about 'what we do and what we say' and claimed critics of the Isle of Man would say 'we are trying to encourage people to change sex in the Isle of Man.'" Astonishing stuff. I think we need to be more concerned that critics of the Isle of Man will think our politicians have mashed potato for brains. I don't know which offends me more, his bigotry, his arrogance or his stupidity. Incidentally, if someone is a half-wit, do they merit full human rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Also isnt keyboarder a tranny? That's very insulting... to transsexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.I.N.G. Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 i agree with china the ramsey side of the island certainly carry more Neanderthal genes than elsewhere.. there brains were different and there was plenty of inter-breeding in hard times.. But they can spell, so I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 As he did not, as far as I know, use any derogatory terms in doing so, he has every right to state his opinion.He does not, however, have the right to declare that "I represent my constituents and the majority of them will agree with what I said." That is making a very large assumption since it is clearly impossible to know whether or not a majority support his views on a issue on which they were not consulted. That is pure arrogance. Ok, but what if the MHK said that the Island should not accept anti-discrimination laws in respect of ethnic minorities because the idea of black or asian people having equal rights offends him and may give off the idea to other foreigners to flock to the Island. Would we accept a openly racist person in government? I would tend to agree in that if people are silly enough to vote for him, or even silly enough to vote, then you get what you get what you deserve, i.e. someone who represents his constituents but voicing his opinions on matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 As he did not, as far as I know, use any derogatory terms in doing so, he has every right to state his opinion.He does not, however, have the right to declare that "I represent my constituents and the majority of them will agree with what I said." That is making a very large assumption since it is clearly impossible to know whether or not a majority support his views on a issue on which they were not consulted. That is pure arrogance. Ok, but what if the MHK said that the Island should not accept anti-discrimination laws in respect of ethnic minorities because the idea of black or asian people having equal rights offends him and may give off the idea to other foreigners to flock to the Island. Would we accept a openly racist person in government? Hypothetical, of course but, if that was the situation - an openly racist person in government after having been elected - we would have no choice but to 'accept' the situation. That is potential the downside of any democracy. Having said that, however, it is also possible to get rid of such a person at the next election by the same means. That is one of the benefits of the democratic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hypothetical, of course but, if that was the situation - an openly racist person in government after having been elected - we would have no choice but to 'accept' the situation. That is potential the downside of any democracy. Having said that, however, it is also possible to get rid of such a person at the next election by the same means. That is one of the benefits of the democratic system. You mention "we would have no choice" and I understand that is a major problem. It is not the downside to democracy because it isn't a democratic system. But yes you could get rid of him at an election. Though I am to-ing and fro-ing in my thoughts about this. I wonder why someone with so much disdain or disgust for transsexuals, who comprise a small number of his constituents should continue to represent them. I know liberal democracy is a bad system, but are we to follow the strict 'rules' of this flawed system by allowing to bigots to be in positions of power and control? What if the situation were a little different. What if half of the MHKs agreed and shared such bigoted views. Would we and should we suffer their power to make decisions because of their opinion? They are a minority and there is no reason why there would be an identical or even possibly strong correlation between public opinion and opinion in the House of Keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sometimes it works. For example, whenever there is a poll on the subject, the vast majority of the British public are in favour of a return of capital punishment. In fact, if the politicians were only there to truly reflect the public's views, it would never have been abandoned. Yet the politicians consistently vote against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sometimes it works. For example, whenever there is a poll on the subject, the vast majority of the British public are in favour of a return of capital punishment. In fact, if the politicians were only there to truly reflect the public's views, it would never have been abandoned. Yet the politicians consistently vote against it. Not true, polls over recent years have seen less than 50% of Brits in favour of Capital Punishment. If politicians acted on all public views we'd really be in the sh1t. We've seen the impact of that with Blair and Broon and their pandering to the media. The issue of capital punishment is complex, unlike many of the Brits that shout out about bringing it back - negating to see all of the complex issues, not least the potential killing innocent people, associated with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I find this whole subject disturbing on so many levels. You are born a bloke/woman, you die a bloke/woman. No amount of surgery will change the fact that you are one or the other. Having had to deal with the PC involved in working with a woman who was a man (or the other way round, none of us were sure), I can say first hand it is extremely difficult to do the 'right thing'. Especially when it involves things like where you would treat a woman completely differently to a man (Heavy lifting for example in my case). Do you say "Here, I will lift that, it looks a bit heavy" or do you say "Sod it, he is a bloke, he can lift it himself". Which will offend the person in question? Who knows? You will get some transgenders who will take offence to the fact you think they are still a bloke, others will take issue with you treating them with chivalry. I can only assume that this was the kind of thing this MHK has reservations about with legislation, but do agree the way he has gone about it is utterly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm a constituent of his and have written to him making it clear that he does not represent my view, and that I will be using my vote next time with a view to removing his bigoted self from the House I wonder what Juan Watterson's comment means? He could not agree it defied common decency but that it could be 'political correctness gone too far'. Since I asked this question it is only fair to report that JW replied to an email I sent him and from his reply I am satisfied that it was a poor choice of wording rather than anything deeper seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sometimes it works. For example, whenever there is a poll on the subject, the vast majority of the British public are in favour of a return of capital punishment. In fact, if the politicians were only there to truly reflect the public's views, it would never have been abandoned. Yet the politicians consistently vote against it. That is not democracy working. What I think you are explaining is that politicians can make decisions that run against the majority's wishes. But I do wonder why someone so bigoted should be allowed to represent the constituents who are transsexual or transgendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 why bother pissing round with a bill for less than 0.1% of the population, lets get to the real gritty issues like the addmission price of an under 18's disco! are there really 80 transsexual's in the Isle of Man?! I might open a coffee shop for them... that's a big market.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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