[BBC News] Unemployment is at 12-year high

[WTF]

Its 2.2% and 45,000 in the article but do you count the percentage on the total numeber working or the total number working and the total unemployed

 

So if the number of unemployed is 926 that is 2.2% of 42,091. so only 2,900 short.

 

maths pays to get the starting figures in equation correct. Also is the 926 included in the 45,000 or additional to, that is two different calculatios and results

 

 

2.2 % of 45,000 = 990

 

2.2% of 46,000 = 1,012

 

obviously the 2.2 and 926 are wrong or the 45,000 is wrong

 

The fact that it includes those needing a work permit is because if you are laid off yo get unemploymenty based on your IOM and UK N I. If you need a work permit or not. If you have liwved here less than 5 years and are notba manx Worker you may not get Income support

 

So that is how they know how many unemployed need work permits

 

wrong either way then, but i concede the 2.2, that is what the zaminer says, but i'm sure the figure quoted on the wireless was 2.5

[Mr Shoe]

I'm a total optimist about this downturn. I think that good will come out of it.

 

Why do you feel so optimistic Pongo?

 

Much of my cautious optimism is covered in what I wrote immediately above the sentence you quoted.

 

Also ++ - economic depressions are typically a time of innovation, re thinking and renewal. Eg - the time to build a business is often during a down - when costs are often lower (rents, wages etc). Depression often creates new opportunities which would otherwise not be economic.

 

Extended boom almost always leads to complacency and short term-ism. The last boom went on too long. A boom which goes on too long is dangerous because it makes the fall worse. And if it goes on too long then whole generations can be lulled into an unreal sense of complacency - thinking that jobs will always be easy to find etc.

 

At a simple level I also welcome the end of easy credit.

 

Ups and downs are also important for the society and the culture.

 

I like your way of thinking pongo.

 

I bet all the big surges in human innovation come after a crisis (1930s, Black Plague etc). A severe down-turn like this will change the way society works. Which is good, coz it's in a rut. Making the iPod another millimeter thinner isn't progress.

[Slim]

I'm a total optimist about this downturn. I think that good will come out of it.

 

Slim - @ your point about people potentially losing their homes: I hope that imaginative measures will be found to try to prevent people losing their homes ... rather than building public housing for them. You might as well semi nationalize their private homes rather than them moving. I also doubt that this little island has adequate funds to pay for public works to keep people in jobs.

 

I think the downturn is a good thing too, the rampant consumerism and wastefulness had to stop, and from the way car and electronics sales have gone, this is happening.

 

But I also don't want to lose my house and I like my job. So I'm a bit selfish about the recession, I want it to happen to everyone else and not me

 

As for nationalising housing debt, that would be loverly, but you know what'll really happen. If the recession bites really hard and unemployment rises, cheap houses will be snapped up by the cash rich at auction and people will be charged rent. The home owners with mortgages will be displaced.

[pongo]

As for nationalising housing debt, that would be loverly, but you know what'll really happen. If the recession bites really hard and unemployment rises, cheap houses will be snapped up by the cash rich at auction and people will be charged rent. The home owners with mortgages will be displaced.

 

Taking measures to keep people in their own homes: it's sort of being promised in the UK - it's sort of been promised in the US - it's sort of been promised in Ireland. The details are all a bit fuzzy as of yet. So lets see.

 

Lots of people on the island have basically got their mortgage with the UK Govt - via the semi nationalized banks (eg IOM Bank Ltd etc).

[thesultanofsheight]

With 260 unemployed construction workers, now would be a great time to get stuck into a large scale public housing project. There's bound to be people losing their homes over the next 12 months, demand for public housing is likely to be higher than ever, and it's over subscribed now. We should be building houses, schools and healthcare and welfare properties not runways.

 

.... and so says John Maynard frigging Keynes. Where is the money going to come from? We are not a soveriegn nation we can't just print money we don't have. IOMG has no money left, it might be deluding itself currently but its shat it all away on useless capital projects over the last 10 years. There is nothing left despite the commitment for a £50m runway and a useless £10m school in Onchan that there is not even any need for.

[Slim]

.... and so says John Maynard frigging Keynes. Where is the money going to come from? We are not a soveriegn nation we can't just print money we don't have. IOMG has no money left, it might be deluding itself currently but its shat it all away on useless capital projects over the last 10 years. There is nothing left despite the commitment for a £50m runway and a useless £10m school in Onchan that there is not even any need for.

 

Like I said, by not building the £50m runway. Otherwise, we can borrow, we do run a surplus currently. We did anyway!

 

Why do you think the Onchan school is useless?

[pongo]

surplus

[Albert Tatlock]

Economically active, according to the 2001 and 2006 Census was:

 

2001 - 39,050

 

2006 - 41,793

 

That's around 500 additional economically active people appearing each year, so a fair guess for 2009 I suspect would be:

 

2009 - 43,293

 

However, 2009 won't be a normal year, so I'd compromise on 43,000

[P.K.]

Taking measures to keep people in their own homes: it's sort of being promised in the UK - it's sort of been promised in the US - it's sort of been promised in Ireland. The details are all a bit fuzzy as of yet. So lets see.

Because of this I should think the details from Ireland are going to be more than "a bit" fuzzy for some time to come.

 

Irish government faces growing fears of debt default.

 

Fears are growing that Ireland could default on its national debt after the cost to insure against possible losses on loans to the country rose to record highs at the end of last week.

[pongo]

Taking measures to keep people in their own homes: it's sort of being promised in the UK - it's sort of been promised in the US - it's sort of been promised in Ireland. The details are all a bit fuzzy as of yet. So lets see.

Because of this I should think the details from Ireland are going to be more than "a bit" fuzzy for some time to come.

 

Irish government faces growing fears of debt default.

 

Fears are growing that Ireland could default on its national debt after the cost to insure against possible losses on loans to the country rose to record highs at the end of last week.

 

Yes. The Irish recapitalization arrangements already imposed conditions relating to repossessions. Potentially meaningless or potentially with some point. Dunno. Also - it may be, in general, in the banks' interests to avoid repossessions, also in the UK, since this would potentially further undermine the value of their assets.

 

It's ironic that anyone still listens to anything from Moodys or S&P given that they are so much a part of the story of how this mess was created. They seem utterly discredited. If only someone would rate the ratings agencies.

[cheesemonster2005]

I like your way of thinking pongo.

 

I bet all the big surges in human innovation come after a crisis (1930s, Black Plague etc). A severe down-turn like this will change the way society works. Which is good, coz it's in a rut. Making the iPod another millimeter thinner isn't progress.

 

Or maybe all downturns lead to deadly wars? After the Great Depression we got World War 2, after the 1970s depression we got Thatcher's war in the Malvinas and after the late 1980s downturn we got the introduction for the Iraq War.

[Albert Tatlock]

I like your way of thinking pongo.

 

I bet all the big surges in human innovation come after a crisis (1930s, Black Plague etc). A severe down-turn like this will change the way society works. Which is good, coz it's in a rut. Making the iPod another millimeter thinner isn't progress.

 

Or maybe all downturns lead to deadly wars? After the Great Depression we got World War 2, after the 1970s depression we got Thatcher's war in the Malvinas and after the late 1980s downturn we got the introduction for the Iraq War.

Though conversely in the 'good times of 1995, 2001, 2003' we got the Yugoslavian, 11/9 and the Iraq/Afghan war.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Or maybe all downturns lead to deadly wars? After the Great Depression we got World War 2, after the 1970s depression we got Thatcher's war in the Malvinas and after the late 1980s downturn we got the introduction for the Iraq War.

 

Besides American can't afford to do much at the moment, and where America doesn't go, nor will Britain, so we're ok.

 

Ups and downs are also important for the society and the culture.

 

I can maybe see how you are optimistic in respect of the business cycle, you know things are very likely to improve again. But things may get a lot worse than they are and that is going to cost jobs. It might not be so bad if people have funds and savings to support themselves whilst looking for other work but it is harder to find work now. And are they not more likely to end up in something less matched to their talents in their desperation to find work?

[Snaipyr]

And are they not more likely to end up in something less matched to their talents in their desperation to find work?

 

 

Yes! Isn't that the case the world over?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

And are they not more likely to end up in something less matched to their talents in their desperation to find work?

 

 

Yes! Isn't that the case the world over?

 

Unfortunately, it is. Only questioning Pongo's optimism about the crisis. I am sure things will pick again but the costs of the crisis have been massive already when it comes to people's livelihoods.