Budget 2009/2010

[triskelion]

Easy way to reduce pension deficet: Make civil servants contributre more than 1.5%.

 

Change to original terms innit, there'd be bleat. Twats!

Aye, that seems to be the case: http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/cso/pensions/09...tfinalhires.pdf (p.43)

[cheesemonster2005]

Growth expected at 2.5% - thats 3.5% lows than last year. Recovery expected late 2010.

 

Inflation down from 6.5% to 1.5% in a few months.

 

Economy remains strong compared with elsewhere.

 

So what's all the fuss about? It's still growth. I'm sick of businesses moaning that 'profits are down 20%' or whatever when it still means that they're making money hand over fist. Any growth is good and if it encourages people to stop wasting their money on OTT expensive houses, cars to enhance their dick size and other stupid things then that's one more good thing to come out of it all.

[Lee54]

I wouldn't disagree that the legal sytem needs work and woulld be the first to push for effective change

 

Please provide some concrete examples you feel need dealing with and i will raise them

 

I may be a senior member of my profession but I have never been uncritical of the law,the courts or my profession

 

It was my campaigning which led to Court and Police Duty advocate schemes

 

I have pushed for law and procedural reform all my practising life

 

 

 

We need party politics and we need it now

 

We ned the aklternatives laying out, and soon

 

That includes an examination of all aspects

 

giving up on independence and becoming part of UK or a constiturent part

 

staying as we are

 

gaining full independence

 

and if so what currency do we use, do9 we want our own and our own central bank or do we retain a sterling euro or diollar link

 

membership or not of EU

 

membership of EEA with total access to EU markets etc but with no pay in or out but bound by all,the regs with no say

 

So where amongst us, the rest of the public and the present legislative crowd are the leaders who need to start the process

 

Bells cry for more accountability and less waste and more efficiency must apply to politics as well as civil servants, departmenst and to business

 

Some good comments John.

 

Oh, and most definitely we need an overhaul of the Manx Legal System and an eradication of some rather insidious practices that abound. But I think you either are, or have chosen to be, unaware of those.

 

I take it your in the Legal system, if so why do the legal profesion on the Island charge a great deal more than those that operate in the UK and why the courts prevent defendants or plaintif from using UK advocates in Manx courts.

[manshimajin]

You cant get a better pension deal than the manx Civil Servants, the normal perk is to be promoted about a year before retirement, as stated in the Keys this week, also asked in the Keys, why do the DHSS create so many new high level posts within its departments

That is unbelievable if it really happens - most defined benefit schemes are based on 'final average salary' calculated over the last 3-5 years not final year's pay. Even that is generous. But of course if you promote someone in his/her last year they have only contributed into the pension scheme at that level for <12 months so there is next to nothing in the pot to pay for the increased benefits - so it comes from taxpayer revenue. Criminal. Particularly if the contribution rate is really 1.5% which is totally inadequate, unprofessional and tantamount to stealing from the taxpayers.

 

Bring on the Irish contribution levels for the Public Service and convert all taxpayer funded schemes to defined contribution without exception! Interesting that the UK are signalling that MPs' pensions may also be moved to defined contribution - even of they fiddle with this it will still cost a lot less.

 

Better still let's have the Australian system! If you have a good public sector or private pension you don't qualify for the State pension. Given the demographics and the enormity of the pension funding gap something like this HAS to happen - or don't start paying the State pension before age 75. We are frankly living in a dreamworld on pensions and it will bite us very hard in about 10 years time unless we start getting real.

[T.I.N.G.]

"Redefining job seekers as a taxable benefit."

Wrong. JSA now non-taxable.

[Sebrof]

........ if so why do the legal profesion on the Island charge a great deal more than those that operate in the UK

 

Do they? When did you last employ a UK solicitor?

 

 

and why the courts prevent defendants or plaintif from using UK advocates in Manx courts.

 

It's a different legal system with different laws. Furthermore, the Manx government licences and regulates Manx advocates. They have no control over foreign lawyers, and no means of knowing whether they are qualified or in good standing.

 

S

[WTF]

It's a different legal system with different laws. Furthermore, the Manx government licences and regulates Manx advocates. They have no control over foreign lawyers, and no means of knowing whether they are qualified or in good standing.

 

S

 

what makes you think local lawyers have a good standing??? there is one i know of that is without doubt a tax dodging crook who 'invents' bills for customers claiming to be in a meeting regarding your case while on holiday in the sticks of foreign countries.

[Moghrey Mie]

Pretty poor response from most MHKs to the budget I thought. Never heard so much rubbish. Karran was particularly all over the place, though many others too. Don't know what we pay most of these people for. That's the first time I think I've even heard Geoff Corkish since he got elected - and he didn't say much - all rhetoric IMO.

 

If things do get tough, I do hope people start to wake up to those leading us. We'll need far far better calibre MHKs at this rate in a couple of years. An interesting few hours listening to it all though, and summarising what little was in it all.

 

 

I was absolutely appalled by the level of 'debate' These people are seriously lacking any ability to analyse what is being proposed in the national budget and putting together two sentences to show where they agree or disagree with it.

 

They need to engage their brains and speak plain English. They should not be allowed to make a speech until they have proved they can string two coherent sentences together.

 

I'd be worried if they were on my local authority never mind in Tynwald. David Quirk should certainly have stayed with the Onchan Commissioners.

[Sebrof]

It's a different legal system with different laws. Furthermore, the Manx government licences and regulates Manx advocates. They have no control over foreign lawyers, and no means of knowing whether they are qualified or in good standing.

 

S

 

what makes you think local lawyers have a good standing??? there is one i know of that is without doubt a tax dodging crook who 'invents' bills for customers claiming to be in a meeting regarding your case while on holiday in the sticks of foreign countries.

 

"In good standing" refers to their position vis-a-vis the authorities. They may be absolute scoundrels, but if they haven't had their licence to practice revoked, they are in good standing.

 

S

[Slim]

It's a different legal system with different laws. Furthermore, the Manx government licences and regulates Manx advocates. They have no control over foreign lawyers, and no means of knowing whether they are qualified or in good standing.

 

Neither of those things is correct. Manx advocates are admitted to the Manx bar via the law society, not the government. There's no licensing. They do have control over foreign lawyers, who must (and do) receive temporary membership to represent a local case.

[manshimajin]

Easy way to reduce pension deficet: Make civil servants contributre more than 1.5%.

Aye, that seems to be the case: http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/cso/pensions/09...tfinalhires.pdf (p.43)

From the document referenced:

Average member contributions would need to rise by in excess of 6% of pay (equivalent to rising from an average of 3.7% today to almost 10% of pay) to cover the “affordability gap”.

So there is plenty of scope there to reduce costs to the taxpayer whilst providing a generous pension to public service employees by asking them to contribute at a level more in line with the 'private sector'. Perhaps follow the Irish model which will have a sliding scale dependent on pay level - higher paid public employees contribute more towards their pensions (including Parliamentarians). Bite the bullet?

[Sebrof]

It's a different legal system with different laws. Furthermore, the Manx government licences and regulates Manx advocates. They have no control over foreign lawyers, and no means of knowing whether they are qualified or in good standing.

 

Neither of those things is correct. Manx advocates are admitted to the Manx bar via the law society, not the government. There's no licensing. They do have control over foreign lawyers, who must (and do) receive temporary membership to represent a local case.

 

Slim strikes again!

 

There were seven facts in my post, all of which were true. You can't, in English (as opposed to Slimspeak) use the word "neither" in connection with seven statements, only with two.

 

Let's take them one by one to make it easier for you.

 

1 It's a different legal system. Are you saying it's not?

2 There are different laws. Are you saying there are not?

3 The gov licences advocates. Are you saying they don't? Anyone can call himself an advocate?

4 The gov regulates advocates. Are you saying they don't? They can't strike them off if they misbehave?

5 The gov doesn't control foreign lawyers? Are you saying the Manx gov controls lawyers in the UK, for instance? UK lawyers would be surprised to hear that.

6 The gov doesn't know if foreign lawyers are qualified. Are you saying they know exactly who are the qualified lawyers in Kazakhstan, for instance?

7 The gov doesn't know if foreign lawyers are in good standing? Are you saying that if a Russian lawyer gets struck off today the IOM will know about it?

 

Next you made a couple of characteristically Slimian statements:

 

1 Manx lawyers aren't licensed to practice. This is so stupid that I won't even bother to answer it. Just see your next statement.

2 Foreign lawyers... must (and do) receive temporary membership to represent a local case. This contradicts your previous statement by accepting that lawyers DO have to have a licence to practice here. And by obliging foreign lawyers to have "temporary membership" - ie a licence - the gov has converted them into licensed Manx lawyers on a temporary basis.

 

Why do you bother, Slim?

 

S

[slinkydevil]

3 The gov licences advocates. Are you saying they don't? Anyone can call himself an advocate?

 

Are they licensed by the government? Anyone can become an advocate if they go through the correct protocal with the IOM Law Society who decide who makes it to the Manx Bar. But they are not government are they? I'm just interested thats all, as a non government organisation issues a licence under the rules of an act from the government!

 

I found this:

 

The admittance and qualifications of lawyers is governed by the Advocates Act 1995 (Part II) which replaces most parts of the Advocates Acts 1826-1976. Further regulations were laid down under the Advocates Regulations 1998, setting out qualification requirements. Sections 15-17 of the 1995 Act allow for the issue of a temporary advocate's licence to non-Manx lawyers provided that:

 

* he/she is a member of the Bar of England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland;

* no Manx advocate is available for the proceedings; or

* the proceedings require knowledge and experience of a nature not ordinarily available in the Island.

 

Who issues the license, government or law society or is it both?

[Sebrof]

3 The gov licences advocates. Are you saying they don't? Anyone can call himself an advocate?

 

Are they licensed by the government? Anyone can become an advocate if they go through the correct protocal with the IOM Law Society who decide who makes it to the Manx Bar. But they are not government are they? I'm just interested thats all, as a non government organisation issues a licence under the rules of an act from the government!

 

I found this:

 

The admittance and qualifications of lawyers is governed by the Advocates Act 1995 (Part II) which replaces most parts of the Advocates Acts 1826-1976. Further regulations were laid down under the Advocates Regulations 1998, setting out qualification requirements. Sections 15-17 of the 1995 Act allow for the issue of a temporary advocate's licence to non-Manx lawyers provided that:

 

* he/she is a member of the Bar of England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland;

* no Manx advocate is available for the proceedings; or

* the proceedings require knowledge and experience of a nature not ordinarily available in the Island.

 

Who issues the license, government or law society or is it both?

 

You'll have to ask Mr Wright. But I should imagine it is the Isle of Man Law Society, under powers conferred by the 1995 Advocates Act. However, I haven't read the Act, so I could be wrong.

 

S

[%age]

There has been a recent case where a relative, against his wishes, had to represent an ill person in court. They both ended up getting their houses arrested to pay the other sides bill.

 

All this has yet to be made public but it is quite amazing what goes on in the law courts of the Isle of Man.