Newsbot Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The Isle of Man's native language is declared officially extinct by a United Nations organisation. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7901763.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The Isle of Man's native language is declared officially extinct by a United Nations organisation. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/7901763.stm This really depends on your definition of 'extinct'. Usually a language is declared extinct when there are no more native speakers, but then that depends on your definition of 'native speaker'. Many people would argue that Ned Maddrell was not a native speaker as he learned his Manx from a relative in childhood. However, there are people today who have been speaking Manx from birth. Unlike other 'extinct' languages, there has never been a time when Manx has not been spoken, so at least we have continuity of use. It has not had to have been reconstructed like some other languages that have been revived. There are people alive today who learned their manx from native speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Unlike other 'extinct' languages, there has never been a time when Manx has not been spoken, so at least we have continuity of use. It has not had to have been reconstructed like some other languages that have been revived. There are people alive today who learned their manx from native speakers. I think this all depends on the definition that UNESCO uses. If they use the definition of native speaker as someone who has spoken the language from birth, then obviously it becomes hard to prove that a person did not speak another language before Manx, such as Ned Maddrell. Assuming he did, and assuming there is a continuous line of people who are native speakers, then I think I have to agree - it is technically not "extinct". A lot of the culture is lost if a language is not taught by someone who spoke the language natively. I'd expect Latin is technically extinct too but many more people use it than Manx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 There's more people who speak Esperanto, Sindarin Elvish or Klingon than Manx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 There's more people who speak Esperanto, Sindarin Elvish or Klingon than Manx. Your point being...? This sentence, or a variation of it, is repeated by rote any time Manx language is mentioned. Another one is, "Manx is useless. Everyone speaks English anyway" The worth of a language can't be measured in terms of how 'useful' it is, or how many people speak it. Its value is cultural. Gyn chengey, gyn cheer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 There's more people who speak Esperanto, Sindarin Elvish or Klingon than Manx. Your point being...? ...that if Manx is a viable, living language, so are Esperanto, Sindarin and Quenya Elvish and Klingon. And they are probably more useful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Despite the recent revival in Manx language, I don't think enough is being done to preserve the associated Manx culture. I've seen roads signs that once had english and manx place names drop the manx version. Manx cottages are being quietly demolished to build blockwork apartments or houses with weird half timber finishing and plenty of other aspects of Manx heritage are being dissolved or anglicised. It's been happening since the Victorians! I don't think it's confined to Gaelg though: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7702913.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Gyn chengey, gyn cheer! But I tend to think that what makes the Island distinctive and separate from the United Kingdom has more to do with political status, the very few cultural idiosyncrasies and events or oddities specific to the Island. Not the language because so few speak it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Despite the recent revival in Manx language, I don't think enough is being done to preserve the associated Manx culture. I've seen roads signs that once had english and manx place names drop the manx version. Really? Certainly in the North of the island lots of new road signs have gone up which are in Manx and English (just in case you can read Manx and not English). I don't know about the south of the island though - I don't go there too often as they are strange down that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The Manx language is extinct. Fair enough if you want to meet up and speak/learn it but don't burden the rest of us with it. I'm getting right pished off phoning the likes of Manx Telecom or the MEA and there is some Govag drawling away on a recorded message and doing his bilingual bit. How crap is that when you want to just pay a bill or report a fault or whatever. Very irritating indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knoxville Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The Manx language is extinct. Fair enough if you want to meet up and speak/learn it but don't burden the rest of us with it. I'm getting right pished off phoning the likes of Manx Telecom or the MEA and there is some Govag drawling away on a recorded message and doing his bilingual bit. How crap is that when you want to just pay a bill or report a fault or whatever. Very irritating indeed. Extinct means: ex·tinct (k-stngkt) adj. 1. No longer existing or living: an extinct species. 2. No longer burning or active: an extinct volcano. 3. No longer in use: an extinct custom. See Synonyms at dead. 4. Law Lacking a claimant; void: an extinct title. My Mum still speaks Manx to her sisters.....I learnt a little bit from her as a child, but she was brought up speaking it. For it to be extinct, means no one speaks it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'm getting right pished off phoning the likes of Manx Telecom or the MEA and there is some Govag drawling away on a recorded message and doing his bilingual bit. How crap is that when you want to just pay a bill or report a fault or whatever. Very irritating indeed. That's just crappy PR, like those water authority vans with Ushtey written in Uncial type. I don't speak much Manx but I would rather see, and hear, it than not. Those who don't like it can always ignore it. There's no point arguing about semantics either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 For it to be extinct, means no one speaks it. This is true - more correctly Manx is a dead language. Wikipedia - Extinct Language Wikipedia - Dead Language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 For it to be extinct, means no one speaks it. This is true - more correctly Manx is a dead language. Wikipedia - Extinct Language Wikipedia - Dead Language I'd be taking this thread far more seriously if it were written in Gaelg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knoxville Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Dead but not extinct, we should start a Manx thread....only allowed to speak in Manx. Show those UN bell ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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