Lost Login Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Sorry but I am struggling to understand your argument although I think you may be helping me make mine. When I refer to the deault language it is that of an individual and in the examples you chose I think you are stating that people or individuals will at times actively decide to speak in their second language. The important point to me is that they have to actively make a decision to speak in that language. That to me is the point with regard to Manx in that when deciding to speak it, for the vast majority it is a consious decision to choose to speak Manx not english. Your default language to me is the language if you could decouple that part of the brain that made that sort of decision then what language would you speak. I am not trying to denigrate Manx, but as Manx for the majority has been learnt rather than absored from day one of life as a first language generally is then for very few it will be Manx in my opinion. I had a bilingual grandparent and you would have had no idea what was her forst language. Probably you would have said English as the rest of the family basically only spoke English. But as her mind staterd to go she reverted to speaking exclusively not in English and in the language she had been brought up with as her first language which showed to me her natural default language was ultinately not English I respect your ideas on what defines a living language, and what defines a dead language. But, by your definition, Irish, Scottish/Canadian Gaelic, Greek, Thai, Dutch and almost all Scandinavian, North American, Austalian and New Zealand languages are dead, as are are many other languages locally during the tourist season, whenever a non-fluent speaker is present. English is the default language in most countries - and mighty handy it is to have a default language - even if it is, in its modern form, dull as ditch water (but at least easily understood by most). Just because I am communicating to you in English, or that Sandi Toksvig and Dara Ó Brian tell their jokes to you in English, or because Hu Edwards reads the news to you in English, it doesn't follow that Manx, Danish, Irish and Welsh are all dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendytoy Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 English is the default language in most countries - and mighty handy it is to have a default language - even if it is, in its modern form, dull as ditch water Dull? To your ears, maybe, but I love the language of the colonizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Vel peiagh erbee geearee cur snaie noa er bun ayns Gaelg er Manx Forums? Ta shen eie mie. Cha nel monney buill erbee ayn son screeu gaelg ayns yn internet. Jean eh, ghooinney! S'mie lhaim unilang - agh t'eh beggan ro ard - as t'ad jus' loayrt mychione y çhengey - share lhiams loayrt mychione reddyn elley as s'cummey lhiam my ta mee jannoo marranyn. Vel oo cummal ayns Mannin ec y traa t'ayn? Nee ben, ny dooinney uss? Ta, ta mee baghey ayns Mannin, as she dooinney mish! Cha nel monney gaelg erbee aym, jus red beg, like. Veagh eh mie boayl ayns yn internet son coloayrtys ayns gaelg. Jus' coloayrtys 'general', t'ou toiggal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 This is getting a bit like two old codgers grunting loudly at each other in a pub or cafe within earshot of some tourists. I've witnessed the like a few times and I have a theory that the grunters don't really have a clue what the other is rabbiting on about. Not that it matters. That said, nobody would be happier than me for my theory to be unfounded.......... ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 This is getting a bit like two old codgers grunting loudly at each other in a pub or cafe within earshot of some tourists. I've witnessed the like a few times and I have a theory that the grunters don't really have a clue what the other is rabbiting on about. Not that it matters. That said, nobody would be happier than me for my theory to be unfounded.......... ; ) The way to prove your theory would be to join in with the grunting, and see if they reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hey, good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 First for legal reasons, ie moderating it would be betterr if any manx posts were accompanied by translations Second it is our culture which makes us different and gives rise to our political difference, in my opinion LDV If we weren't manx with our own language and history, our songs, our dances and our way of looking at the world we woud just be a county of somewhere else I fully support the re birth of the Manx lnaguage and say we were lucky to have so many in the 1950's and 1960's, who tried to preserve what was then dying out, a death brought about by education (universal and in English medium) and the church (which condemned manx as barbaric) and commerce which exposed us all to more and more monoglot english So praise to the likes of Doug Faragher, Colin Jerrey and the younger generation. Be thankful we will have children who know what place names and fields names mean. Well done MNH for sponsoring George Broderick and his 6 volume place name survey The UN is highlighting risk manks is still in danger, but it is off the ventilator/life suppoprt. We have education in manks and exams in Manx. If you want to have any Governm,ent document in manx they will traslate,on request, they have to if they also deliver in Polish, Hindi, Arabic, Thai etc I welcome the day when manx can be used, as of right, in Court and in Tynwald and we have a regular news paper in manx and English The EU whilst adopting English more and more for conferences and debate has a language programme which protects and pronotes regional languages, not just basque or Flemish of galician or euskadi, but also Aranesque, a dialect of a remote are of Spainish catalonia on the french side of the Pyrenees related to gascon and catalan. Each country is tasked with promoting and preserving, and they all do except, yes you've guessed it France which is so centralised linguistically that French, a language only spoken by a yiny minority 200 years ago, in te Isle de France, now dominates and nothing goes to support Breton, Norman, Gascon Occitan, basque or catalan (and 100's of others, which really were languages and not dialects) and the UK which ignores everything apart from Welsh and Scots gaelic. No help for Scots, laland, Northern Irish scots, Northern Irish gaelic, cornish etc Good on C4 wales and BBC Alba for broadcasting. Popular culture and news keep a language alive. BBC Alba is a TV channnel on sky and scots gaelic is mutually intelligible with manx, bit like Slovak and czech and Polish and Russian. What is more tay have an English sub title option asc well to assist learners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 First for legal reasons, ie moderating it would be betterr if any manx posts were accompanied by translations Doesn't that defy the point of writing in Manx? It also means we have to type everything twice! I am far too lazy for that kind of thing. What if we promise to be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 ............there used to be regular contributions in Manx (without translation). ............ and, I'm sure, unread by non Manx speakers. I think that's a reasonable supposition. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunyani Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Dead, just like everything else on this island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Dead, just like everything else on this island. But not, unfortunately, you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theman Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 is there a free online tranclater for manx??? try i'm trying to find one.... i'm up for posting in manx it may help use's under what i'm 4king saying lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 i'm up for posting in manx Oh! I thought you already did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ta, ta mee baghey ayns Mannin, as she dooinney mish! Cha nel monney gaelg erbee aym, jus red beg, like. Veagh eh mie boayl ayns yn internet son coloayrtys ayns gaelg. Jus' coloayrtys 'general', t'ou toiggal. She - er lhiams nagh vel feme ain er aascreeu dy chioolley red ayns Baarle noadyr. Vel oo loayrt Gaelg dy mennick? S'doillee lhiam credjal yn aght ta çhengey elley cur anvea er sleih gyn veg agh Baarle. Loayrt dy firrinagh, shegin dooin cur forumyn aun hene er bun - agh s'treih lhiam gra cha nel fys aym er yn aght shen y yannoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyborer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ta, ta mee baghey ayns Mannin, as she dooinney mish! Cha nel monney gaelg erbee aym, jus red beg, like. Veagh eh mie boayl ayns yn internet son coloayrtys ayns gaelg. Jus' coloayrtys 'general', t'ou toiggal. She - er lhiams nagh vel feme ain er aascreeu dy chioolley red ayns Baarle noadyr. Vel oo loayrt Gaelg dy mennick? S'doillee lhiam credjal yn aght ta çhengey elley cur anvea er sleih gyn veg agh Baarle. Loayrt dy firrinagh, shegin dooin cur forumyn aun hene er bun - agh s'treih lhiam gra cha nel fys aym er yn aght shen y yannoo. Yeahhhh............say it as it is...............Fregyrag lol,lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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