Chinahand Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Given the debate in various threads about the IOM's relationship with organizations overseas I wondered why exactly the IOM isn't a member of the EU. Firstly what's the history of our non-entry, and secondly are those historical reasons still valid, or are there a new set of reasons why being a member wouldn't be a good idea. And how are those disadvantages offset by advantages to memebership - how does it balance out? Helping the Island we aren't in, or hindering it? If its only work permits I'm fully in favour of abandoning the system and getting on with it. Work permits might have had some validity when we had a highly seasonal workforce, but that isn't the case now and it just stymies businesses choosing the best person for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Given the debate in various threads about the IOM's relationship with organizations overseas I wondered why exactly the IOM isn't a member of the EU. Firstly what's the history of our non-entry, and secondly are those historical reasons still valid, or are there a new set of reasons why being a member wouldn't be a good idea. And how are those disadvantages offset by advantages to memebership - how does it balance out? Helping the Island we aren't in, or hindering it? If its only work permits I'm fully in favour of abandoning the system and getting on with it. Work permits might have had some validity when we had a highly seasonal workforce, but that isn't the case now and it just stymies businesses choosing the best person for the job. I'm probably out of order here but I think membership is restricted to Sovereign states. Ie a proper country in its own right. We unfortunately/fortunately (delete as per your own viewpoint) aren't a proper country. Yeah we have the parliament and laws etc but everything has to be rubber stamped in London so its not real independence. Independence has plenty of merits and one of these is EU membership. But as 75% of IOM Government Income comes from VAT, we would need to find a way of replacing that before we went solo. As things stand we are an associate member under a rule known as protocol 3 (or something like that) which allows free trade but restricts other things. The English Government are supposed to represent us in EU matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confirmed Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 In my opinion, given the current situation, it would be best that the Isle of Man moves away from Europe and the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Piebaps surely that isn't totally relevent as we can piggy back in on the UK's membership and gain full rights via an alteration of Protocol 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 In my opinion, given the current situation, it would be best that the Isle of Man moves away from Europe and the UK. That would require some kind of giant towing device. Or alternately, 'pockets of unusual electromagnetic activity' allowing the Island to move in both time and space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Piebaps surely that isn't totally relevent as we can piggy back in on the UK's membership and gain full rights via an alteration of Protocol 3. I dunno. I was just saying it as I understood it. We ain't a country so we ain't a member. This is a little oversimplification (probably an understatement) but its basically it. Rehashing protocol three is an option but remember protocol three is an arrangement the UK made for its dependencies. The parties to the agreement are UK and EU. We aren't as I understand it able to negotiate. The UK would have to do it on our behalf. This would all boil down to a VAT costing. If the english thought they could give us a lesser share of the VAT then they would be itching to get shut of us. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 In my opinion, given the current situation, it would be best that the Isle of Man moves away from Europe and the UK. That would require some kind of giant towing device. Or alternately, 'pockets of unusual electromagnetic activity' allowing the Island to move in both time and space. Excellent work MissT. Like the Steve Martin sig too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Or alternately, 'pockets of unusual electromagnetic activity' allowing the Island to move in both time and space. I see what you did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The MHK's would cream their pants at the EU millions they would get to waste on pointless capital projects.... 4 lane motorway between Andreas and Sandygate.... 24/7 HDTV coverage of Tinpotwald (except when they're sitting - for security purposes)... motorised trams to assist the horses when they get tired.... runway extension.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confirmed Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 We're the closest island I know to being Lost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Im afraid its really the old chestnut Farming that prevents us joining. The EU would offer a much smaller trough with a loss of control in the houses---Turkeys rarely vote for xmas. Fancy a world with no import controls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 We need to examine Gibralter's position. Like us, it has internal self-government, but is treated as an English county for EU parliament voting purposes. It is also outside the customs union. We seem to get quite a good deal on VAT at the moment, and we would sacrifice this if we cut ourselves off from the UK VAT/customs system. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 During the EU membership negotiatioms in 1970 to 1972 the then Conservative Government was concerned for the Islands and our position. It set up the Kilbrandon Commission to report on the position of the Channel Islands and IOM and to eaxmine what our relationjship with the then EEC might be. I may be slightly wrong, it may have been set up by labour in 1969 to examine devolution as well but remember it was labours application to join, not Ted Heaths. Full title was the Royal Commission on te Constitution. I have a hard copy, somewhere, it was an important part of a law students materials on our constitition in 1978 (that and the McDermott Commission Report. At that time we had a Customs Union with the UK and the Channel Islands did not, also we had work permits, the Channel Ilsands did not but they were developing residency controls The reason we have duties and the common purse is an accident of the revestment after which, for 100 years, all taxation,ie customs duties, there was no inciome tax here, went to London Kilbrandon who was a judge, consulted widely. There were three options really, In like Gibraltar out, like the Faeroes were to be, or a half way house with protocol three. there was no real debate in IOM, we went for protocol three. It was the stay as you are option, in reality. Because of our customs union we then got VAT and a decade or more of the abrogation debate. In 1973 no one exepcted our financial services, to take off so freediom of movement of the person and of goods was enough. We got VAT, the EU sales tax as a bonus. In UK it replaced purchase tax and selective employment tax (tax on emeloyment in service industries to encourage manufacturing, wow). We had nver had SET so it was a bonus Kilbrandon also examined independence in and out of EU and it was made plain that if that was waht we wanted we could have it. Westminster would not stand in our way, although we would have to adopt and apply many International conventions. Looking at it since 1866 when we started to get control over our taxes to 1966 when the Governor gave up being Chancellor abnd we had the Finance board we saw a slow trend to IOM looking after itself, since then, just 40 yeras the cahnge has been tremendous. We are fra ahead of Jersey and Guernsey in compliance with Human Rights in our government, its structure and in our courts and their structure. Independence is still there for us to take. i stress it is for us to take, we ask, it will be given. it doesn't matter, as one person i know will argue that it is impossible to work out where our sovereignty is. we as a people can assunme sovereignty in an Act of Tynwald, a referendum and then an Act of Westmisnster, just likie canad, NZ, Aus and all the ex colonies, but iot isn;t wholly necessary, between IOM as is and UK we have total sovereignty so we could apply with UK consebnt for menmbership. our peculiar constitutional position is wholy irrelevant. Yes Gibrlatar is in and for EU elections it is part of the South West constituency and it has a thriving offshore financial services industry, which is not affected by the EU membership, indeed it is assisted becuaes it can market far and wide. Yes it is out of the customs union because of low duties, but so are the Canaries and Madeira. Did you know you can only bring 200 tax paid cigraettes back from Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Czech epubklicv and Poland because their duty is so low, the EU has lost of exceptions, it thrives on diversity. At least lets explore it. We have the following competitors in Europe Dublin Financial Centre Luxembourg Gibraltar Andorra Monaco Jersey Guernsey Malta Cyprus Liechensten Switzerland Every one is in either the EU or the EEA except for the three British Islands and Andorra. One is still a British Crown Colony with a population smaller than ours. Others are our direct competitors in finacial services, some are fairly small, no more than double our size. By applying and negotiating we have nothing to fear but the fear of rejection and if accepted we have the comfort of choice We are now too wealthy to qualify for a gravy, train but we migt get subsidy for sea and air transport links. After all we have to live by the rules this club imposes so why not participate and take full davantage What would we have to give up? Well work permits, what would we gain, well Health Care in the whole EU, not just UK, a market of 500 million in our approximate time zone where 350 million speak english as well as their native tongue. EU peripherasl region/nation staus aid. Yes we would have to pay something in, but in real terms we would get something out. Finally EU membership would not precude continuance of the Common Purse, it may well cement it, it may become a touchstone for how to deal with EU VAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The European Union was set up to take control of individual Nation States. Remember how it was first called the "Common Market" and it was only being set up for free trade. Well look at the EU now. If you want the IOM to loose control of our own sovereignty, there is no point in living here. See the Video, The Real Face of the European Union, link below. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=62...+European+Union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I believe the best way of doing business with the EU is by being part of it. Therefore I am very much in favor of EU membership but understand that, for the moment at least, many people probably would not be. My sense of that is that many are still under the influence of rather hysterical anti - EU propaganda. I also have the impression that many people on the island are as eurosceptic as the most unionist of english tories when it comes to anything to do with the EU. If there was a vote tomorrow I expect it would be lost. I hope we do not ever reach a point at which, rather like Iceland, we end up with no option but to more or less beg for fast track membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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