manshimajin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Presumably it would change our negative "tax haven" status to positive EU Member status if we were in the same club as Luxembourg which seems to have very liberal personal and business tax regimes. I think the list of competitors also needs to include Campione d'Italia. Could you imagine the Manx Government taking over the Presidency of the EU for 6 months! Get the Lisbon Treaty ratified first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 During the EU membership negotiatioms in 1970 to 1972 the then Conservative Government was concerned for the Islands and our position. It set up the Kilbrandon Commission to report on the position of the Channel Islands and IOM and to eaxmine what our relationjship with the then EEC might be At that time we had a Customs Union with the UK and the Channel Islands did not, also we had work permits, the Channel Ilsands did not but they were developing residency controls The reason we have duties and the common purse is an accident of the revestment after which, for 100 years, all taxation,ie customs duties, there was no inciome tax here, went to London Kilbrandon who was a judge, consulted widely. There were three options really, In like Gibraltar out, like the Faeroes were to be, or a half way house with protocol three. there was no real debate in IOM, we went for protocol three. It was the stay as you are option, in reality. Because of our customs union we then got VAT and a decade or more of the abrogation debate. In 1973 no one exepcted our financial services, to take off so freediom of movement of the person and of goods was enough. We got VAT, the EU sales tax as a bonus. In UK it replaced purchase tax and selective employment tax (tax on emeloyment in service industries to encourage manufacturing, wow). We had nver had SET so it was a bonus Kilbrandon also examined independence in and out of EU and it was made plain that if that was waht we wanted we could have it. Westminster would not stand in our way, although we would have to adopt and apply many International conventions. Looking at it since 1866 when we started to get control over our taxes to 1966 when the Governor gave up being Chancellor abnd we had the Finance board we saw a slow trend to IOM looking after itself, since then, just 40 yeras the cahnge has been tremendous. We are fra ahead of Jersey and Guernsey in compliance with Human Rights in our government, its structure and in our courts and their structure. Independence is still there for us to take. i stress it is for us to take, we ask, it will be given. it doesn't matter, as one person i know will argue that it is impossible to work out where our sovereignty is. we as a people can assunme sovereignty in an Act of Tynwald, a referendum and then an Act of Westmisnster, just likie canad, NZ, Aus and all the ex colonies, but iot isn;t wholly necessary, between IOM as is and UK we have total sovereignty so we could apply with UK consebnt for menmbership. our peculiar constitutional position is wholy irrelevant. Yes Gibrlatar is in and for EU elections it is part of the South West constituency and it has a thriving offshore financial services industry, which is not affected by the EU membership, indeed it is assisted becuaes it can market far and wide. Yes it is out of the customs union because of low duties, but so are the Canaries and Madeira. Did you know you can only bring 200 tax paid cigraettes back from Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Czech epubklicv and Poland because their duty is so low, the EU has lost of exceptions, it thrives on diversity. At least lets explore it. We have the following competitors in Europe Dublin Financial Centre Luxembourg Gibraltar Andorra Monaco Jersey Guernsey Malta Cyprus Liechensten Switzerland Every one is in either the EU or the EEA except for the three British Islands and Andorra. One is still a British Crown Colony with a population smaller than ours. Others are our direct competitors in finacial services, some are fairly small, no more than double our size. By applying and negotiating we have nothing to fear but the fear of rejection and if accepted we have the comfort of choice We are now too wealthy to qualify for a gravy, train but we migt get subsidy for sea and air transport links. After all we have to live by the rules this club imposes so why not participate and take full davantage What would we have to give up? Well work permits, what would we gain, well Health Care in the whole EU, not just UK, a market of 500 million in our approximate time zone where 350 million speak english as well as their native tongue. EU peripherasl region/nation staus aid. Yes we would have to pay something in, but in real terms we would get something out. Finally EU membership would not precude continuance of the Common Purse, it may well cement it, it may become a touchstone for how to deal with EU VAT Well, I did say my version was an understatement. Well summarised John. That's probably about as concise as you'll get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I accept there are dangers, but not enough to say no it is not for us. Yes the EU is anti democratic but that will change.. The phrase Europe of the Regions is designed for the likes of the IOM, with one centralised administration dealing with inter and intra national matters we may not want to bother with, and leaving us, nay encouraging us, to exercise local level democracy The European Union was set up to take control of individual Nation States. Remember how it was first called the "Common Market" and it was only being set up for free trade. Well look at the EU now. If you want the IOM to loose control of our own sovereignty, there is no point in living here. See the Video, The Real Face of the European Union, link below. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=62...+European+Union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confirmed Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 If the Isle of Man was to signup to the EU, would the EU force us into a position where it would jeopardise our finance centre status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Presumably it would change our negative "tax haven" status to positive EU Member status if we were in the same club as Luxembourg which seems to have very liberal personal and business tax regimes. I think the list of competitors also needs to include Campione d'Italia. Could you imagine the Manx Government taking over the Presidency of the EU for 6 months! Get the Lisbon Treaty ratified first. One day they might all meet here. The British Irish Council does sometimes. Why shouldn't the Isle of Man become more involved in EU politics - which affect us already? Many of us are EU passport holders already - despite the island not being in the EU. Probably way more than half of us I would guess. (Everyone who has an* EU grandparent AFAIK). *edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Has it done that to Luxembourg, Monaco, Liechenstein Cyprus, Dublin, Gibraltar, Malta, Switzerland? Why, if we were in, would it pick on us? If the Isle of Man was to signup to the EU, would the EU force us into a position where it would jeopardise our finance centre status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Before anyone says - "but Swizerland is not in the EU" (which it isn't exactly) this is the essential Wikipedia page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Sorry I did cover the EEA somewhere in my original post on alterrnatives No Norway Switzerland and Lichenstein are not within the EU but are signed up to its policies on most things The Euro is best, for confusion, apart from the countries who are "in" another 8 are signed up to join and have a fixed rate with the Euro and it is used in Andorra, vatican City and san Marino, by agreement and in many other places without agrement including Bosnia and Kosovo. UK has an opt out and Denmark has an opt in But hey we are all different and a bit of diplomatic differences is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Great let us join the EEC then we can have a flood of cheap labour from the poorer european nations taking jobs as in the UK as would be thier right with the common border policy, we can also have various legistlation forced upon us to help kick us down and let us not forget tax increases to pay for all the scroungers who flood in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macmannin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 And then we have a flood of whining immigrants....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Great let us join the EEC then we can have a flood of cheap labour from the poorer european nations taking jobs as in the UK as would be thier right with the common border policy, we can also have various legistlation forced upon us to help kick us down and let us not forget tax increases to pay for all the scroungers who flood in Who is to say they will become scroungers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Great let us join the EEC then we can have a flood of cheap labour from the poorer european nations taking jobs as in the UK as would be thier right with the common border policy, we can also have various legistlation forced upon us to help kick us down and let us not forget tax increases to pay for all the scroungers who flood in Isn't it funny that while all those whinging englishmen on the Total picket lines at the refineries the other week, another englishman was lobbying their parliament. On the picket lines, they wanted no foreign workers while the guy going to Parliament wanted to relax the rules to allow more in. Why? Well apparently if he can't get anyone to pick his crops, he will have to stop growing them. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7867528.stm Seems that we need to make our minds up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Isn't it funny that while all those whinging englishmen on the Total picket lines at the refineries the other week, another englishman was lobbying their parliament. On the picket lines, they wanted no foreign workers while the guy going to Parliament wanted to relax the rules to allow more in. Why? Well apparently if he can't get anyone to pick his crops, he will have to stop growing them. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7867528.stm Seems that we need to make our minds up! And hopefully choose to open up the borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Great let us join the EEC then we can have a flood of cheap labour from the poorer european nations taking jobs as in the UK as would be thier right with the common border policy, we can also have various legistlation forced upon us to help kick us down and let us not forget tax increases to pay for all the scroungers who flood in Isn't it funny that while all those whinging englishmen on the Total picket lines at the refineries the other week, another englishman was lobbying their parliament. On the picket lines, they wanted no foreign workers while the guy going to Parliament wanted to relax the rules to allow more in. Why? Well apparently if he can't get anyone to pick his crops, he will have to stop growing them. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7867528.stm Seems that we need to make our minds up! the minds are made up, ppl want them into do the jobs thay dont want to, but as soon as thay start doing there jobs, theres up roar that there takeing the jobs, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 also i really dont think that after this resession has done its work, that there be much of an EU to join, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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