Bananaman Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svLyyzBC_qI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 you could make a start by explaining why paki is offensive and manxi or brit isnt please..?? Because British and Manx persons use Brit and Manx(y) to describe themselves. Whereas the term Paki came about to refer to people from Indian subcontinent in complete ignorance of where that person is from. It is not a term to denote nationality but rather a remark about one's race. see the racism is in your own mind .. when terms are used in humour they are used without malice. But humour that uses racist terms and stereotypes serves to reproduce those fallacies, exagerrations, or racist understandings of other people. And that is something we should move away from. However, a lot of stereotypes are based on truths and cultural peculiarities exist all over the world. A joke can be racist (in the broadest sense of the term) but still be acceptable and funny. But having malice is not the key to what makes something racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 you could make a start by explaining why paki is offensive and manxi or brit isnt please..?? Because British and Manx persons use Brit and Manx(y) to describe themselves. Whereas the term Paki came about to refer to people from Indian subcontinent in complete ignorance of where that person is from. It is not a term to denote nationality but rather a remark about one's race. but still quite acceptable to them when used in a sporting context .. i.e. without malice. see the racism is in your own mind .. when terms are used in humour they are used without malice. But humour that uses racist terms and stereotypes serves to reproduce those fallacies, exagerrations, or racist understandings of other people. And that is something we should move away from. However, a lot of stereotypes are based on truths and cultural peculiarities exist all over the world. A joke can be racist (in the broadest sense of the term) but still be acceptable and funny. But having malice is not the key to what makes something racist. i think your wrong .. its the intent to offend or said with malice thats key .. australian commentators frequently say the pakki batsman etc.. its a simple shortening of the national name and is taken that way .. and a human condition to put shortened names to every aspect of life where possible .. an example describing a black/white/brown man in a joke as a black/white/brown man is not offensive .. however describing any of them instead of man as black/white/brown bastard is offensive and is then a racial joke imo.. and even my example would be enough for some to complain i used black as the first colour in my example thats how far this PC garbbage has gone .. we all know whats offensive and what isnt .. political diktats are a ruination.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 i think your wrong .. its the intent to offend or said with malice thats key .. australian commentators frequently say the pakki batsman etc.. In terms of the significance of malice do you just mean the word paki? its a simple shortening of the national name and is taken that way .. and a human condition to put shortened names to every aspect of life where possible .. I don't know what the word is used to refer to in the antipodes. It may only be meant to refer to Pakistanis. I know many words used in Australia mean different things. Wog in Britain means someone black, but in Australia refer to someone from Greece (I think). and even my example would be enough for some to complain i used black as the first colour in my example thats how far this PC garbbage has gone .. we all know whats offensive and what isnt .. political diktats are a ruination.. I don't understand what you mean about referring to black as the first colour in the example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Racism is all a load of old rubbish really, people need to stop going on and on and on and on and on about it. How 1968.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 i think your wrong .. its the intent to offend or said with malice thats key .. australian commentators frequently say the pakki batsman etc.. In terms of the significance of malice do you just mean the word paki? its a simple shortening of the national name and is taken that way .. and a human condition to put shortened names to every aspect of life where possible .. I don't know what the word is used to refer to in the antipodes. It may only be meant to refer to Pakistanis. I know many words used in Australia mean different things. Wog in Britain means someone black, but in Australia refer to someone from Greece (I think). and even my example would be enough for some to complain i used black as the first colour in my example thats how far this PC garbbage has gone .. we all know whats offensive and what isnt .. political diktats are a ruination.. I don't understand what you mean about referring to black as the first colour in the example. In terms of the significance of malice do you just mean the word paki? in britain and maybe america yes and several other words that assies see fit to use as shortened versions .. such as niger when describing a coloured person.. shorten for nigerian .. as indeed it originally was in america until adopted with malice by the klan .. and after the civil rights movements of the sixties became a reviled term .. and 10 years later britain followed suit .. not so other countries as it was never used as a percieved racial slur .. the percieved bit being key. china still use the term freely for one. I don't know what the word is used to refer to in the antipodes. It may only be meant to refer to Pakistanis. I know many words used in Australia mean different things. Wog in Britain means someone black, but in Australia refer to someone from Greece (I think). it is only used to describe pakistani sportsmen as far as i know .. however i moderate on this blue chip companys site http://www.121s.com/ the company is a betting exchange. .. and is frequented by alot of aussies however we are allowed to accept the N word from aussie contributors as its everyday speak under certain circumstances otherwise the slightest bit of malice and i will edit the post .. as we have alot of international clientelle that we have to consider aswell its a judgement call and people will be banned if they keep sailing to close to the wind.... {im lay low21 } I don't understand what you mean about referring to black as the first colour in the example. i meant for some not putting white or brown first would be racist on a par with baking hotcross buns.. thats how stupid political correctness has become.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 in britain and maybe america yes and several other words that assies see fit to use as shortened versions .. such as niger when describing a coloured person.. shorten for nigerian .. as indeed it originally was in america until adopted with malice by the klan .. and after the civil rights movements of the sixties became a reviled term .. and 10 years later britain followed suit .. not so other countries as it was never used as a percieved racial slur .. the percieved bit being key. china still use the term freely for one. But for something to be racist, it does not need to depend on there being malice or ill-intent. If I referred to a black person who was best friend or colleague and with no bad intentions referred to them as a nigger it would be racist. In terms of perception, the important point is who perceived it to be offensive or not. I don't understand what you mean about referring to black as the first colour in the example. i meant for some not putting white or brown first would be racist on a par with baking hotcross buns.. thats how stupid political correctness has become.. You've lost me completely, don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 But for something to be racist, it does not need to depend on there being malice or ill-intent. If I referred to a black person who was best friend or colleague and with no bad intentions referred to them as a nigger it would be racist. not in china it wouldnt nor other countries nor if you were all black guys.. it is now offensive because the klan made it offensive in the 60s and earlier .. and the brits adopted the same stance in the 80s.. other countries did not percieve the shortening of the countries name as connected to the klan and inbred racism to them its just a description same as brit or manxy. as for you not understanding my other line then im sorry i dont know how to put it any simpler.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree with LDV on all his points. You're point about black first is a smokescreen whether you intend it to be or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 im wrong then so is wikipedia . its a subject at 121 that we mods have discussed several times in depth as a nescessity .. the beauty of an international site is international view points. hence my knowledge of the aussie phych. and my knowledge of the southern hemispheres typical views.. hong kong etc.. all members .. and not disjointed views either .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree with LDV on all his points. You're point about black first is a smokescreen whether you intend it to be or not. the quote was a dig at how ridiculous political correctness has gone .. from doing good to the absolute ridiculous as in banning hotcross buns at easter in schools because it could cause offense to other ethnic minority kids who dont celebrate easter..etc the absurd examples are limitless.. and as for 121sports heres a post from yesterday by a brit that got him a week ban. double standards apply here as he wouldnt of been banned if it were 2 aussies having a chat in general about atkinsons racist remarks.. .. however he was just trying to be a smart arse.. .. and if he wasnt such a good contributor elsewhere would have been banned as you are only seeing one post. .. and ive edited the N word.. Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He was a VIlla guy amongst many others. The guy WAS a thick lazy n++++r. Ron was just telling it as it was. Ron would have called him a thick lazy white englishman if he was white. Ron wold have called him a thick lazy Jap if he was japanese. Ron would have called him a thick lazy American if he was American. Ron would have called him a thick lazy cunt if he was Australian. Ron is blunt and to the point. I like Ron Atkinson. No racisism was meant by the guy. He just speaks his mind and comes from a different generation. Niger is not an offensive term, all the black rappers continuously call themseleves ni===rs. A N++++r is actually someone who comes from Nigeria. Same as an Aussie is someone who comes from Australia. Political correctness gone mad. How can it be offensive to call a nigerian a n++++r but completely acceptable to call an Australian an Ozzie. he made a valid few points but the thread was made with malice a piss=take.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.I.N.G. Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 No it's not, it is about how you have a right wing agenda, with racist undertones. The BNP have started their campaign really early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 im wrong then so is wikipedia . its a subject at 121 that we mods have discussed several times in depth as a nescessity .. the beauty of an international site is international view points. hence my knowledge of the aussie phych. and my knowledge of the southern hemispheres typical views.. hong kong etc.. all members .. and not disjointed views either .. Not sure if we are talking cross purposes. What I am saying is that a word or modes of behaviour can be still racist yet may not have originated because of ill intent. Racism is not simply limited to calling someone a name to be nasty that relates to race. I use racism in its broad sense as any behaviour that discriminates or oppresses in relation to race. If I met two people and one was far east asian looking and the other caucasian I won't deny that I feel an expectation that I would have more in common with the caucasian and would likely be able to communicate and understand them better. This is racism. There are lots of other examples of how pernicious racism is. And the other point I was making is that it is not for the person who uses any racially connected word or acts out any behaviour to be the ones who have the only 'say' on what constitutes racism. It is for the recipient to make that judgement. It is better using terms that have no racial connotations. It may be that calling someone a Paki in Australia is acceptable is the Pakistanis in Australia use that term and are happy to be referred to as that. Yet if that term was used for Indians or Bangladeshis then it is unacceptable. And the word nigger is completely racist regardless of where you are from. Australia might be on the other side of the word and the word might be acceptable to a certain group of people or to society at large but it is undeniably racist. Malice has no bearing. The word has a history of use as a derogatory reference to black people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 im sorry i only read the first bit and couldnt be arsed with the rest .. you use your broader terms all you like .. i was talking about racism in a joke.. the rest is a mine field .. so you go right ahead twinkle toes you go dance on the mines im done.. .. probably.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 In your post about the thread from the forum you moderate, what exactly are the parts you think were valid? I think you are mixing up political correctness and racism, e.g. hot cross buns and racist names for people. They are different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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