Steam Packet Smoking Ban

[Stavros]

Could always use your own boat...

Shit, sorry, it's off topic and should've been about the country we want to live in

[Nitro]

If it’s rough the SPCo close the upper deck on the Super Seacat, leaving the smokers in the corridor by the doors to outside, this makes it hard when travelling on rough crossings if you need to get away from the stench of vomit inside.

 

Didn't you know that Albert Tatlock has already tried to hide his own inadequacies by changing the whole matter of the thread into the country we want to live in and it now has absolutely nothing to do with the original thread title but more to do with why it appeared in the first place. Now how fucking lame is that argument!

 

...has everything to do with the country we want to live in, and the fact that such a thread title even appeared in the first instance.

 

Perhaps because Albert is of a generation of which "smoking was good" and a generation of people who mostly smoked and who could smoke pretty much anywhere they liked, aeroplanes, airports, cafes, bars, clubs, cinemas, arena's, shopping centre's, taxi's, company cars, train stations (most rented accomodation too), most work places (canteen, office etc) and shock horror inside a vessel such as the seacat etc...

 

If you said 20-30 years ago (perhaps even 10) their going to ban smoking on an open top boat (as in not only can you not smoke inside like you would normally do, you can't smoke outside either), most people would laugh, because well... it is laughable!!, Nanny state or not its getting ridiculous, can't smoke on an open platform of a train station? (WTF!?)......can't smoke on the open deck of a ferry?, thats a joke!!

 

Its a bit of a sudden change really and were only going back a year that you could smoke in most indoor places, wasn't that enough for the Anti smokers?.... obviously not, smokers?....who?...pah just third class citizens...., Either ban the sale of tobacco or not, its legal to buy yet illegal in most places to smoke????, (and before some fuckwit goes on about alcohol being legal to drink yet illegal in some places, its nowhere near on the same length)

[Declan]

If it’s rough the SPCo close the upper deck on the Super Seacat, leaving the smokers in the corridor by the doors to outside, this makes it hard when travelling on rough crossings if you need to get away from the stench of vomit inside.

 

If you let people smoke inside it'd hide the stench!

[DRIVER]

If it’s rough the SPCo close the upper deck on the Super Seacat, leaving the smokers in the corridor by the doors to outside, this makes it hard when travelling on rough crossings if you need to get away from the stench of vomit inside.

 

If you let people smoke inside it'd hide the stench!

 

 

Do the Steam packet not sell Cigaretes on the seacats ?

[Albert Tatlock]

Didn't you know that Albert Tatlock has already tried to hide his own inadequacies by changing the whole matter of the thread into the country we want to live in and it now has absolutely nothing to do with the original thread title but more to do with why it appeared in the first place. Now how fucking lame is that argument!

 

...has everything to do with the country we want to live in, and the fact that such a thread title even appeared in the first instance.

The debate is about the Steam Packet Smoking ban (on 2/3 ships) and so it is about tolerance.

 

Tolerance is an important aspect of society - and hence the country you live in. It's your inadequacy to not realise that, and its implications.

 

All you do when your arguments are undermined is name call - and swear - very grown up. Plus I believe you are an anti-smoking troll.

[manxman2]

i happen to agree with albert you young guys have no idea at how many of the freedoms our generation had that have already been eroded so you dont miss them .. albert fears as i do the tightening of control over our lives to the point of pettiness as successive governments exercise their social engineering

experiments at the cost of all our liberties i fear for you fuckers in the future .. you just cannot see or except that the state IS taking control over every facit of daily life .. but ofcourse you have nothing to fear if your doing nothing illegal .. bollocks you aint.

 

and since the jews were mentioned .. in away your generations are as blind as they the jews were on the trains to the death camps .. they just refused to believe it could happen and went meekly to the fate. .. even if you do relise in time what can you do about it .. fuck all because organising a demo is against the law and you will be jailed under the anti-terrorist laws .. any gathering of more than 5 people and your subject to arrest if you dont move on when requested to under the anti -terrorist laws .. were all fucked with no legal way to fight back but only a few can see.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

i happen to agree with albert you young guys have no idea at how many of the freedoms our generation had that have already been eroded so you dont miss them .. albert fears as i do the tightening of control over our lives to the point of pettiness as successive governments exercise their social engineering

experiments at the cost of all our liberties i fear for you fuckers in the future .. you just cannot see or except that the state IS taking control over every facit of daily life .. but ofcourse you have nothing to fear if your doing nothing illegal .. bollocks you aint.

 

and since the jews were mentioned .. in away your generations are as blind as they the jews were on the trains to the death camps .. they just refused to believe it could happen and went meekly to the fate. .. even if you do relise in time what can you do about it .. fuck all because organising a demo is against the law and you will be jailed under the anti-terrorist laws .. any gathering of more than 5 people and your subject to arrest if you dont move on when requested to under the anti -terrorist laws .. were all fucked with no legal way to fight back but only a few can see.

 

Oh dear... social engineering, removal of civil liberties, terrorism, and the holocaust. What does this have to do with smoking on the seacat? Can you at least demonstrate the linkages please.

[Stavros]

The debate is about the Steam Packet Smoking ban (on 2/3 ships) and so it is about tolerance.

 

Tolerance is an important aspect of society - and hence the country you live in. It's your inadequacy to not realise that, and its implications.

 

All you do when your arguments are undermined is name call - and swear - very grown up. Plus I believe you are an anti-smoking troll.

 

You can believe whatever you like Albert. I'll admit that I've called you a fuckwit but I'm entitled to believe what I like too. Other than that I haven't resorted to calling you names and any swearing is not in context with calling you names.

 

My argument has not been undermined. When was the last time you sat on a bus and demanded your right to light a cigarette? When was the last time you got on a plane and asked to sit in the smoking section? Smoking was stopped by the people that owned the businesses. That's their right and every business has the right to call time on smoking if they want too.

 

Tolerance, you're tolerated. You have the free right to smoke anywhere you're permitted. That's good for you, that's good for me and that's good for everyone. I realise that smokers are part of our society and that they should have their rights observed. I also believe that non-smokers also have the right not to be unduly subjected to substances which can be avoided through careful considerations. We live in a country that can adapt and move forward in a versatile and modern way. The implications that you believe will come from this are far worse in your view than they are in mine. There are far more implications from things other than smoking that will affect the world or country within which we live.

 

You trying to change the thread direction to cover over your own misguided views was a noble effort but you eventually had to concede that the subject matter of the thread was indeed about the smoking ban on the Steam Packet and not really anything to do with the country we live in. Albeit that you have deliberately tried to roll that into your newly chosen 'Tolerance' bleat.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The debate is about the Steam Packet Smoking ban (on 2/3 ships) and so it is about tolerance.

 

Tolerance is an important aspect of society - and hence the country you live in. It's your inadequacy to not realise that, and its implications.

 

All you do when your arguments are undermined is name call - and swear - very grown up. Plus I believe you are an anti-smoking troll.

 

I personally think you have far better politics than many other people on this forum, but I cannot help think that your arguments for the preservation of your ability to smoke where you have always done so affects plays a heavy part on your judgement in matters like this.

 

This is not a simply matters of the changes to your freedoms but has to be seen in the context of the harm that passive smoking can do to other people. Smoke is a poison. Nobody who is a non-smoker, or even someone not currently smoking a cigarette, should have to breathe in someone's smoke.

 

The smoker and non-smoker should accommodate for each other to limit the chances that their personal freedoms are affected and to prevent exposure to toxins. But if the smoker cannot prevent others from breathing in his smoke he should move somewhere where he can limit it the most or not smoke.

 

Tolerance - what are non-smokers supposed to tolerate? Smokers ability to poison others? I disagree on matters such as preventing people from smoking on business property, even if that is outside and where nobody can breathe the smoke, or on station platform when nobody is about. I ignore it, I don't care, it's common sense as if nobody is there is all right to smoke where you want outside. But if you really think tolerance is so important here, ask yourself what people are intolerant of.

[manxman2]

i happen to agree with albert you young guys have no idea at how many of the freedoms our generation had that have already been eroded so you dont miss them .. albert fears as i do the tightening of control over our lives to the point of pettiness as successive governments exercise their social engineering

experiments at the cost of all our liberties i fear for you fuckers in the future .. you just cannot see or except that the state IS taking control over every facit of daily life .. but ofcourse you have nothing to fear if your doing nothing illegal .. bollocks you aint.

 

and since the jews were mentioned .. in away your generations are as blind as they the jews were on the trains to the death camps .. they just refused to believe it could happen and went meekly to the fate. .. even if you do relise in time what can you do about it .. fuck all because organising a demo is against the law and you will be jailed under the anti-terrorist laws .. any gathering of more than 5 people and your subject to arrest if you dont move on when requested to under the anti -terrorist laws .. were all fucked with no legal way to fight back but only a few can see.

 

Oh dear... social engineering, removal of civil liberties, terrorism, and the holocaust. What does this have to do with smoking on the seacat? Can you at least demonstrate the linkages please.

 

albert was pointing out its just one small link in a chain .. just one more jumped up bunch of cunts playing the PC card and in doing so trampling on peoples liberties .. and lets not forget we are talking about smoking on an open deck of a big ship moving lots of air at 30mph+ ffs you have more chance of being shit on by a gull than catching a whiff of smoke..

[Stavros]

.. albert fears as i do the tightening of control over our lives to the point of pettiness as successive governments exercise their social engineering experiments at the cost of all our liberties

So what you're saying is that the government have done a social engineering strike on the Steam Packet and convinced them that they have to comply with their tightening control over our lives and that they should ban smoking on their fast craft vessels?

 

Why didn't you tell me this earlier, could have saved a load of bollox from Albert!

[Albert Tatlock]

I personally think you have far better politics than many other people on this forum, but I cannot help think that your arguments for the preservation of your ability to smoke where you have always done so affects plays a heavy part on your judgement in matters like this.

 

This is not a simply matters of the changes to your freedoms but has to be seen in the context of the harm that passive smoking can do to other people. Smoke is a poison. Nobody who is a non-smoker, or even someone not currently smoking a cigarette, should have to breathe in someone's smoke.

 

The smoker and non-smoker should accommodate for each other to limit the chances that their personal freedoms are affected and to prevent exposure to toxins. But if the smoker cannot prevent others from breathing in his smoke he should move somewhere where he can limit it the most or not smoke.

 

Tolerance - what are non-smokers supposed to tolerate? Smokers ability to poison others? I disagree on matters such as preventing people from smoking on business property, even if that is outside and where nobody can breathe the smoke, or on station platform when nobody is about. I ignore it, I don't care, it's common sense as if nobody is there is all right to smoke where you want outside. But if you really think tolerance is so important here, ask yourself what people are intolerant of.

Don't forget we are talking about smoking outside in a (often) guaranteed 40mph gust - even on the calmest sunniest of days.

 

I have never argued against a non-smokers right to be smoke free. Just that compromises indoors could be reached by the provision of separate areas or separate premises etc. But let's not go down that route, it's got complicated enough already.

 

This is really about intolerance AFAIAC - and these anti-smoking fascists - who are just happy whenever they see smokers inconvenienced - even if they are not affected themselves.

[Declan]

My argument has not been undermimed. When was the last time you sat on a bus and demanded your right to light a cigarette? When was the last time you got on a plane and asked to sit in the smoking section? Smoking was stopped by the people that owned the businesses. That's their right and every business has the right to call time on smoking if they want too.

 

That's a correct but spurious argument though isn't it? Private companies can and do set all sorts rules or Terms & Conditions, tariffs - you name it, but it doesn't mean we can't discuss, disagree and even challenge those terms. In this case the SPC can

 

a. Charge what they like

b. Sail when they like

c. to where they like

d. provide whatever onboard service they like, of whatever quality they like, at whatever cost they like

 

Ultimately, provided it is within the law, our only choice is to take it or leave it. But we've discussed all these issues on here.

[manxman2]

no stavros im not and you know it.

 

your just enjoying winding up any smokers that will entertain you.

 

i said i agree with alberts stance on the wider picture of state control and influence.

 

the packets decision is a symptom of that.

[Albert Tatlock]

My argument has not been undermined. When was the last time you sat on a bus and demanded your right to light a cigarette? When was the last time you got on a plane and asked to sit in the smoking section? Smoking was stopped by the people that owned the businesses. That's their right and every business has the right to call time on smoking if they want too.

Indoors/enclosed shared environment. Not relevant to this debate.