Albert Tatlock Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The Leaflet outlining changes due to the ending of the reciprocal agreement can be found here They should have called this vital government leaflet - "Important information for anyone travelling to the UK can anyone tell us what the **** is happening please as we haven't a clue." Misinformation is a dangerous thing, and very worrying, never mind costly, to much of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I still suspect Eddie Teare is pulling a fast one here by his seeming indifference, and I suspect he knows that overall this will save money somewhere - surely it save it somewhere if people have to pay for insurance. I'd like to see the full model as to how this works and who really benefits before I'd make a final judgement on that. But as usual, there's no information about it. Not so. Apparently shed loads of money pass between us and the UK to maintain the reciprocal agreement, and we came out the winners. Now it is going, it will put a big hole in the DHSS budget. The UK pulled the plug on the VAT sharing agreement last year, without warning. They have now pulled the plug on the Health Agreement, without warning. Not much Eddie and co can do about a unilateral decision if they are not consulted. What is the next plug they are going to pull on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 What is the next plug they are going to pull on us? Sorry - can't help it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Someone works for a Manx company and is sent across to work. Will the employer pay the insurance? If not, will the employee be within his/her rights to refuse to leave the country? My uninformed guess is that the employer will be required to pay insurance. Paging the Moffat family - will Little Miss Moffat please join this thread (after she has finished in the works canteen) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Not so. Apparently shed loads of money pass between us and the UK to maintain the reciprocal agreement, and we came out the winners. Now it is going, it will put a big hole in the DHSS budget. The UK pulled the plug on the VAT sharing agreement last year, without warning. They have now pulled the plug on the Health Agreement, without warning. Not much Eddie and co can do about a unilateral decision if they are not consulted. What is the next plug they are going to pull on us? This is the point though - our government is happy to point fingers at the UK and say how bad it is of them without accepting that they've been taking the piss out of the VAT agreement for years (so that gets noticed and renegotiated), and now the UK has worked out they are milking the health and (probably in the future) NI agreements and so those get changed / removed too. Maybe they should stop ragging the ass out of the UK to keep tax rates low and we'd arrive at some happy medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Any comeovers who don't like it can bugger off, Why is it necessary for some people to resort to that everytime a problem arises here and they have the temerity to comment? It's not helpful to anyone manx or non-manx. And why is it necessary to describe comments as bleating? It's only comeovers complaining is it? It's only comeovers who are going to be affected is it? No, I thought not. Anyone living here whatever their nationality/ethnicity etc who is paying NI and tax to this government should be free to make reasonable points on here without having that phrase quoted as if its an answer to anything. This change is going to very seriously impact anyone who has an accident or falls ill even on a day shopping trip to the 'pool. As soon as you are out of intesive care, you will pay. A lot. As to the Gov having to pay for treatment for anyone falling ill off island, well why not? They would be paying half an hour earlier before they got on the plane...... . I think someone cleverer than me should do some sums to see how much the costs would be for providing cover for a limited time off island, say one month or less. That would stop people living in the Costas for 9 months of the year from claiming on such a system. The difference between this and the dodgy insurance company would be the gov would have to provide treatment wheras an insurance company is under no obligation to even cover you in the first place. Of course once they have declined cover you will have to always answer yes to that catch all question "have you ever been refused etc etc" I for one would be more than happy to pay extra for this. If it was part of the income tax system, this cost would be reasonably fairly apportioned. This will affect only a small number of people but it could affect some of those very significantly. I can forsee a few horror stories in the next few years, but I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Maybe they should stop ragging the ass out of the UK to keep tax rates low and we'd arrive at some happy medium. It is a fair point. The UK is up to it's neck in debt, and we have a £billion in the reserves. Yet we can find money to more quickly bail out many of the depositors in a bank, cock about with £50 million at the airport for something we really don't need, and even talk about spending the equivalent annual cash on one QB roundabout. Never mind the other squillions that have been wasted over the years to pay OTT prices for something they've bought. Yet we can't find a few measly million to cover the healthcare changes, which will impact and inconvenience practically everyone. This issue is going to make lots of people very very angry, the majority of who don't yet realise what it actually means for them yet. This could all be solved surely if they entered into proper and realistic negotiations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Sorry - can't help it Corrr, The Bash Street Kids. I remember that I never thought that I'd forget and now I never thought that I'd remember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 This could all be solved surely if they entered into proper and realistic negotiations? UK aren't talking, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 This could all be solved surely if they entered into proper and realistic negotiations? UK aren't talking, You may be right, though it would be nice to see some evidence for your statement. However, it doesn't really matter. All we need is for the IOM Gov to underwrite any reasonable medical bills that Manx residents incur in the UK. Why should it not? At the same time, it is going to have to set up a system to charge UK residents who fall ill over here. This will help to defray the cost of treating us while over there. But it's all very silly, and part of creeping privatisation of the health service. Private insurance and charging sick people are both very costly administratively. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribz Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 GD4ELI - there are reciprocal agreements all over the EU - I believe these types of arrangements should become more and more common in the future. I don't see why the IOM seems to be unable to negotiate such agreements - in fact quite the opposite - I think they have seriously missed the boat - while our neighbours gain from increasing reciprocal agreements, we become ever more marginalized. But the island has chosen to become marginalized, is currently quite deliberately anti EU. This sort of thing is the logical outcome. That said. I know for a fact that British nationals living in France are now required to take out private medical cover if they want to be treated by a French doctor. The rest have to pay. Unless they are working in France and have paid adequate deductions/stamp. Granted that is a slightly different issue - but it does reflect a tightening of the regulation in France during the past few years. A major difference is, that whilst 47% of people living here were born on the island, 44% were born in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. Add visitors and the UK are mainly impacting their own citizens or ex-citizens. I still say it is a waste of time, because overall the UK will be saving pennies (£2m I seem to remember) when you take into account visitors here, and visits by us to there + admin + insurance etc. with the UK ostracising mostly their own. Surely it would be easier to just pay the additional £2m - much like we pay a fee for defence. Wonder where I would fit into that. Manx born and passport holder and paid island tax and ni from the age of 16 up until I left the island at 29. Since paid uk tax and ni to current date at 38. (sorry for excess quoting, couldnt figure out how to edit it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Wonder where I would fit into that. Manx born and passport holder and paid island tax and ni from the age of 16 up until I left the island at 29. Since paid uk tax and ni to current date at 38. (sorry for excess quoting, couldnt figure out how to edit it) It's about residency, not nationaility or place of birth, and not even where you paid most of your contributions - so you'd need insurance when you visit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The cost of any 'post emergency' hospital care in the UK should be met by the IOM Government, it's as easy as that. But for the logisitics of organising the air/ferry trip back to the Island, the patient would be occupying a bed at Nobles with its associated cost to the Manx NHS. It would be interesting to know just how many Manx residents per annum a) require A&E services in the UK and b) require subsequent hospitalisation. I would have thought very few. Who would provide the insurance scheme and, most importantly, at reasonable cost? I would doubt whether there are any on the market, obtainable through UK sellers, that allow for the reimbursement of NHS fees. Broon and his cronies will be on administering last rites to each other very soon; Teare needs to be talking to the Cameron team to come to an arrangement post regime change. Finally, as a British Citizen who contributed many years of contributions to the NHS and took very little out of the system, I am disgusted that a non-UK citizen has more rights to health care than one who was born there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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