Shill Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 In the majority of circumstances I would say Paedophilia is non consensual which amounts to rape. You may well have an argument Slim but I dont think the original point of this topic warrants it. Comparing homosexuality to paedophilia even in the context you are suggesting is pretty poor form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 In the majority of circumstances I would say Paedophilia is non consensual which amounts to rape. You may well have an argument Slim but I dont think the original point of this topic warrants it. Comparing homosexuality to paedophilia even in the context you are suggesting is pretty poor form. Oh don't go all Daily Mail on me. There's Paedophiles that have never touched a child, in fact I imagine the majority are. I'm only comparing it to homosexuality in that they're both sexual preferences. I'm not being judgemental about homosexuality. Please try to understand the point rather than do the knee jerk dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shill Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I'm not. I'm just saying whats the point in arguing a point when you are comparing apples to ladders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I'm not. I'm just saying whats the point in arguing a point when you are comparing apples to ladders. I'm not. Lets make it simple: Homosexuality is a sexual preference for the same sex. Pedophilia is a sexual preference for children. What's incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shill Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Maybe it's just my view but I personally dont think any amount of counselling will change someones sexual preference. I just dont see the point in using the example of Pedophilia when the original point was regarding homosexuality and hetrosexuality where a Paedophile can be either. There are thousands of sexual preferences, but only 2 sexes in the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Isn't the entire issue about why someone would want to change a homosexual sexual preference. Sure we can all understand why a paedophile would want to curtail or change their sexual preference - and why society would expect them to do this. But why would someone want to change a homosexual preference. Sure preference's can be changed - but often with psychological damage - society doesn't care about that in the case of paedophiles - and uses coercion to enforce its view. But if changing the preference is psychologically damaging why do it. My response is that sometimes it isn't damaging, and sometimes changing a sexual preference in either direction may end up helping a person achieve psychological health. I do think people are slightly talking apples and ladders on this. But then again I do think you are right Slim that LDV wants it both ways - opps that isn't meant to be an inuendo, but anyway! With paedophilla suddenly our young anarchist is going on about law and social norms, while with homosexuality he says quite the opposite. Come LDV admit that is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 To me it's quite simple, homosexuality and pedophilia are both a sexual desire issue. One is legal but one isn't. It's interesting to see the way you rationalise these things though particularly given your thoughts about the law in other threads. I chose pedophilia to illustrate my point but it could be any sexual preference, legal or otherwise, eg sadism, asphyxiation, exhibitionism, or whatever. I genuinely don't understand the point you are making in respect of the law on this issue. The law need not enter into it. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, but I am interested. It is quite understandable why people would want treatment or help to curb their paedophilic desires given what it is and what it involved in manipulating a child. There are very good reasons there. Yet the reasons why people with homosexual desires would choose to change can in my mind only come from prejudiced beliefs, as it is consensual and SHOULDN'T be seen in a negative light. It's all about sexual preference to me. You seem to be elevating homosexuality to something else, presumably because you are homosexual. That's a pretty self centered view in my opinion. What else is homosexuality than sexual preference? I am not elevating. As I keep saying, I simply see any idea of changing sexual preference from gay to straight as a product of prejudice. Why can't such people be happy with their feelings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Maybe it's just my view but I personally dont think any amount of counselling will change someones sexual preference. I just dont see the point in using the example of Pedophilia when the original point was regarding homosexuality and hetrosexuality where a Paedophile can be either. There are thousands of sexual preferences, but only 2 sexes in the human race. The point is that the treatment for offending pedophiles is generally behavioral therapy. This isn't under debate, LDV didn't post that it was insulting to Pedophiles to think that their preferences could be changed by counselling. So in your opinion Pedophiles can't be helped? They shouldn't receive counselling, current treatments are a waste of time? Is that your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yet the reasons why people with homosexual desires would choose to change can in my mind only come from prejudiced beliefs. So you are ignoring everything I've written then - ok! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 China, I think people can have traits that they don't like and they want to change. I think it's perfectly feasible for someone to be an unwilling homosexual. They have a sexual preference, but they don't want to be that way for whatever reason. I don't see anything wrong with that personally. I genuinely don't understand the point you are making in respect of the law on this issue. The law need not enter into it. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean, but I am interested. I'm just having a dig really on your daft anarchy views. If you have sex with a 13 year old in the IOM, you're a pedophile, if you do it in Japan, you aren't. That's a legal issue, right? I'm saying you obviously respect that law, but you don't others. It is quite understandable why people would want treatment or help to curb their paedophilic desires given what it is and what it involved in manipulating a child. There are very good reasons there. Yet the reasons why people with homosexual desires would choose to change can in my mind only come from prejudiced beliefs, as it is consensual and SHOULDN'T be seen in a negative light. Not necessarily, see my post above. The assumption that someone who wants to change is prejudiced seems prejudiced the other way to me. If someone doesn't want to be gay, isn't that up to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yet the reasons why people with homosexual desires would choose to change can in my mind only come from prejudiced beliefs. So you are ignoring everything I've written then - ok! Only just read it now Chinahand. But what are the reasons why changing orientation from gay to straight is psychologically healthy in any instances? Why the requirement? I cannot but think that prejudice and negative attitudes are where the issue lies. But then again I do think you are right Slim that LDV wants it both ways - opps that isn't meant to be an inuendo, but anyway! With paedophilla suddenly our young anarchist is going on about law and social norms, while with homosexuality he says quite the opposite. Come LDV admit that is interesting. Can either of you please explain this. It's flying over my head. I don't think I mentioned anything about the law in respect of paedophilia. The only person referring to laws is Slim. Nor have I made direct referrence to social norms as I recognise that both homosexuality and paeodpihlia are not normative. In fact hetero-normativity would appear to me to be the main reason why people wish to change preference and believe it works, and see it is a cure. But the distinction with paedophile is to recognise the simply differences between them, one being that paedophilia is intrinsically an abuse of power whereas the other is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shill Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Maybe it's just my view but I personally dont think any amount of counselling will change someones sexual preference. I just dont see the point in using the example of Pedophilia when the original point was regarding homosexuality and hetrosexuality where a Paedophile can be either. There are thousands of sexual preferences, but only 2 sexes in the human race. The point is that the treatment for offending pedophiles is generally behavioral therapy. This isn't under debate, LDV didn't post that it was insulting to Pedophiles to think that their preferences could be changed by counselling. So in your opinion Pedophiles can't be helped? They shouldn't receive counselling, current treatments are a waste of time? Is that your view? Why are you so hung up on arguing about Pedophiles. The original post was to do with 'fixing' gay people. I am pointing out that your argument dosent really make much sense, to me anyway. I'm obviously being thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 If there are some people who want to be cured of their immoral unnatural homosexual perversion then why should they NOT be helped. And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am NOT 'acting the Troll'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shill Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Of course you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringwraith Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 There is a danger that this kind of 'research' and 'treatment' (funded by The Wellcome Trust) could in future see 'being gay' established as some kind of mental disorder. No doubt the drug companies already have some kind of anti gay pill ready to be marketed to all those poor mentally ill homosexuals. Not really surprising to see the likes of Slim supporting this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.