Bikers + Footpaths

[Slim]

That's not what i asked, pay attention.

 

I'm paying attention, I just don't understand the comparison. Motorcycles do considerably more damage to the landscape than mountain bikes and walkers, so why even mention them damaging the land?

 

Why is it O.K for certain non road tax paying groups (such as walkers & mountain bikers) to use and erode these lanes but it's not O.K for those who pay tax for the upkeep of them to continue to use them? I expect you'll dodge that question as well.

 

This issue of road tax giving you rights comes up here again and again. You don't pay road tax, you pay a vehicle licence duty. That does not pay for the roads, that does not give you any rights, that does not elevate you above any other road user.

 

It isn't ok for anyone to destroy greenery, and everyone who uses them should leave them in good condition. We don't have the volume of walkers to cause the damange you're talking about in the UK national Glens, you're inventing a problem that isn't there to deflect the issue.

 

Get real. The issue is actually one of mis-use of taxes.

These are roads that have been rights of way to traffic for generations. Granted, they do pass through some beautiful countryside, however the tracks themselves have a purpose - they are for travelling on, not gawking at. If you rufty tufty mtb types don't like it on the green lanes, stick to the easier routes.

 

Get real? Have these trails been used by nobbly wheeled high powered off road bikes for generations? No. This is a relatively recent problem, times change, new vehicles become popular, roads and rules may have to change accordingly.

 

And another thing.

Have you seen the erosion caused by bicycles on the disused railways around the Island? Tut tut. Only walkers (wearing slippers) should be allowed access to these havens of natural beauty (which weren't put there by man, but by some divine being - macmannachoochooman). And then only with the proviso that they arrange working parties to fluff up the weeds (and dogshit) once a week.

 

Yes actually, walked from Douglas to Peel on Sunday via the railway. Met a good number of mountain bikers on the way, they all slowed and gave me a nod hello. It's in very good condition, someones finally filled the one really boggy bit coming out of peel with gravel, and the rest of the tracks holding up fine. No complaints from me at all.

 

Like I said in my post above, the majority off off road motorcyclists I meet are ace, no problem at all, there's a minority of tossers though who have no respect for other trail users. I don't think bikes should be banned from trails, but I do think that there needs to be a solution for making the trails appropriate for this use, for example repaired by the users voluntarily and that the anti social idiots that put peoples lives at danger need to be kept in check somehow.

[Ringwraith]

Get real? Have these trails been used by nobbly wheeled high powered off road bikes for generations? No. This is a relatively recent problem, times change, new vehicles become popular, roads and rules may have to change accordingly.

 

I bet it was a problem in the days of the horse and cart. Why don't you get over yourself Slim, these paths are for everyone, if there is a particularly muddy bit then just go round it. If it's that badly damaged then the government should just repair it.

 

You're kind of like the trail bike of the forum, spluttering through all the threads with your bile but we don't say ban you do we?

[Slim]

You're kind of like the trail bike of the forum, spluttering through all the threads with your bile but we don't say ban you do we?

 

Did you even read my posts? It doesn't look like it, as I'm not suggesting we ban anything.

 

As for the Government repairing it, why can't the people who damaged it repaired it? This has worked very well with the mountain bikers in the plantations in cooperation with the DAFF, why can't the motorcyclists do the same?

 

Take a look here at what can be achieved through voluntary hard work:

[Ringwraith]

Did you even read my posts? It doesn't look like it, as I'm not suggesting we ban anything.

 

Many are though, in the press as well. You are just bitching (as usual) so what's the difference?

 

I don't think they should pay for the repairs, we pay taxes for that kind of thing, it's the governments job.

[Slim]

Many are though, in the press as well. You are just bitching (as usual) so what's the difference?

I don't think they should pay for the repairs, we pay taxes for that kind of thing, it's the governments job.

 

Many are, but not me.

 

I didn't say they should pay for the repairs, I said they should DO the repairs. Amuses me that people want the government to do everything for them, unless it gets in the way, in which case we hear screams of 'nanny state'. Why not just sort it out, if you made the damage, help repair it. Why is it everyone elses problem?

[Ringwraith]

Many are, but not me.

 

I didn't say they should pay for the repairs, I said they should DO the repairs. Amuses me that people want the government to do everything for them, unless it gets in the way, in which case we hear screams of 'nanny state'. Why not just sort it out, if you made the damage, help repair it. Why is it everyone elses problem?

 

No, you're just bitching as usual which is the same thing.

 

I don't want the government to do everything for me, don't you read me posts?

 

We pay taxes for things such as the upkeep of roads and paths. You in your own small way contribute to damage to main roadways and paths in towns, why don't you get out there and help them repair those as well?

[Slim]

No, you're just bitching as usual which is the same thing.

 

What am I bitching about? Quote me. I'm suggesting solutions so that everyone can use the trails.

 

I don't want the government to do everything for me, don't you read me posts?

We pay taxes for things such as the upkeep of roads and paths. You in your own small way contribute to damage to main roadways and paths in towns, why don't you get out there and help them repair those as well?

 

I would consider it if there was a need, why not? I understand that public funds have to be prioritised, and that a repair of a main road used by thousands a day takes priority over a track used by 20 people a week. We're not actually talking about that much effort here, a working group up to the few badly damaged areas on a sunday once in a while sorting them out for everyone, is that such a hardship to solve the issue?

 

Speaks volumes about the attitudes of motorcyclists vs mountain bikers if this is out of the question.

[Frances]

I bet it was a problem in the days of the horse and cart.

actually it probably wasn't as wheeled vehicles were not that common - pack horses + mules were it seems the common mode with sleds to handle some loads.

When significant transport was needed between the main towns new roads were built (eg the part of the A1 from Ballaleece bridge into Peel was done at instigation of George Moore - other roads were also built - many bridges were built post 1760.

Today's main roads were mostly upgraded from the 1790's - the greenways were those tracks that had little use at the time thus effort was not spent on upgrading them

[Ringwraith]

What am I bitching about? Quote me. I'm suggesting solutions so that everyone can use the trails.

 

Posts: 7,390

 

I would consider it if there was a need, why not? I understand that public funds have to be prioritised, and that a repair of a main road used by thousands a day takes priority over a track used by 20 people a week. We're not actually talking about that much effort here, a working group up to the few badly damaged areas on a sunday once in a while sorting them out for everyone, is that such a hardship to solve the issue?

 

Speaks volumes about the attitudes of motorcyclists vs mountain bikers if this is out of the question.

 

You're mental! And I'm not even a biker, I prefer walking in the glens and hills, far more civilised. But if the roads are there they should be looked after by the government. Fair enough if you want to go out and make little tracks and jumps for yourself but the upkeep of the road should be done by the government, it's their job.

[Ringwraith]

actually it probably wasn't as wheeled vehicles were not that common - pack horses + mules were it seems the common mode with sleds to handle some loads.

When significant transport was needed between the main towns new roads were built (eg the part of the A1 from Ballaleece bridge into Peel was done at instigation of George Moore - other roads were also built - many bridges were built post 1760.

Today's main roads were mostly upgraded from the 1790's - the greenways were those tracks that had little use at the time thus effort was not spent on upgrading them

 

Of course horses and carts caused track damage back in the day, you're nearly as mental as Slim!

[Slim]

You're mental! And I'm not even a biker, I prefer walking in the glens and hills, far more civilised. But if the roads are there they should be looked after by the government. Fair enough if you want to go out and make little tracks and jumps for yourself but the upkeep of the road should be done by the government, it's their job.

 

Great, but we're not talking about roads, we're talking about footpaths, specifically the millennium way.

 

Of course horses and carts caused track damage back in the day, you're nearly as mental as Slim!

 

It wouldn't be you now, would it?

[manshimajin]

Why is it O.K for certain non road tax paying groups (such as walkers & mountain bikers) to use and erode these lanes but it's not O.K for those who pay tax for the upkeep of them to continue to use them? I expect you'll dodge that question as well.

I didn't know that my annual car tax was used to pay for greenways and walking tracks.

 

I suspect that the erosion and damage is a combination of riding style and speed (ie friction/traction caused between wheel and ground). Would bikers be happy to adhere to a low speed limit on greenways and tracks? Could anti-speed obstacles be incorporated (ie tank traps or the like!!!!).

 

If the road tax argument holds any water the next thing is that jeep drivers will want to drive over the fells - and if bikes can do it because they have paid annual road tax then 4WD pay more tax and therefore should have more right to go anywhere.

 

Mind you as a GOM I'd also ban jet-skis within 1/4 mile of the shore!!!!!

[TomTucker]

I would consider it if there was a need, why not? I understand that public funds have to be prioritised, and that a repair of a main road used by thousands a day takes priority over a track used by 20 people a week. We're not actually talking about that much effort here, a working group up to the few badly damaged areas on a sunday once in a while sorting them out for everyone, is that such a hardship to solve the issue?

 

Speaks volumes about the attitudes of motorcyclists vs mountain bikers if this is out of the question.

 

Pretty ridiculous comparison to draw there, the damaged greenway road at Sky Hill is a considerably bigger job to fix than creating a down hill mountain bike trial with a few brushes some logs and some broken up pallets.

 

Before these people jump up and start saying motorcycles have destroyed the countryside and heres photographic evidence, they should give a balanced view. The Sky Hill track was made one way from October so had vehicular trafffic on it for 12 months yet that fact has been omitted from the story. Closer to the gate that joins the hill land there are huge ruts far bigger than bikes can make and this is no doubt caused by 4x4s.

 

The bridge has been extended several times but as the ground is soft bikers riders, especially in experienced ones, struggle to get on to it so they dig a big hole this makes a nice big soupy puddle that makes it difficult for walkers. Yes the DOT seem to have done little to improve the area but then again their efforts have been in vain in the past.

 

The biggest force at work here is not a spinning Michelin but nature its self and its that force that can be used to repair the tracks. It is time for new approach and i would suggest either creating an adjacent track that can be used whilst the old track is rotorvated and steam rollled flat with a tractor. If left heather will rapidly take hold and the track will be self repaired in matter of months.

 

Alternativley the same process could be done to the track and it then left for 12 months before allowing vehicular traffic on again. During this time the tracks such as Ballaragh which is in a similar state to sky hill can be kept open and once Sky Hill is repaired this track can be closed and a similar repair process done there.

[MarkH]

Slim, you just ain't getting it are you. If you go riding on the trails and cause (any) damage by doing so, how can you have a pop at people who pay tax for the pleasure of riding the same trails? Or is your damage O.K?

Maybe you think it is because you have less fun doing it (mountain bikers always seem to be grimacing).

 

Frances - if you think hooved beasts don't churn up unsurfaced roads you need to get out in the country more often.

[Digga]

Mind you as a GOM I'd also ban jet-skis within 1/4 mile of the shore!!!!!

 

Why?...................It's not as if there is many bathers/swimmers on the beaches these days