Yanks Take On The Pirates

[Chinahand]

As far as I'm aware he lived in Aden for many years not Somalia - clearly he occasionally cast his line fruitlessly into its seas, pined for a lobster meal and got food poisoning from the local crayfish - oh the delights of Colonial living - still I bet he enjoyed the sundowners and has many memories to savor.

[Sebrof]

As far as I'm aware he lived in Aden for many years not Somalia - clearly he occasionally cast his line fruitlessly into its seas, pined for a lobster meal and got food poisoning from the local crayfish - oh the delights of Colonial living - still I bet he enjoyed the sundowners and has many memories to savor.

 

Very droll, Chinahand. I'm glad you have lightened up a little. But Aden isn't Africa, and the word you want is "savour". Your spelling is an embarassment.

 

Now down to reality. Pretending that the situation in Somalia is caused by illegal fishing is absurd. The pirates are simply the pawns of the warlords in the area, who have profited from a lack of effective government - indeed they have deliberately fomented it - in order to enrich themselves.

 

And Ringwraith, I have never argued with your so far unsupported assertion that people are dying from nuclear waste dumped in the sea off Somalia. I have simply asked for corroboration of your story, and you still haven't produced any (though I am sure you are googling away madly trying to find something).

 

You also persist in lying about what I said.

 

S

[Ringwraith]

Now down to reality. Pretending that the situation in Somalia is caused by illegal fishing is absurd. The pirates are simply the pawns of the warlords in the area, who have profited from a lack of effective government - indeed they have deliberately fomented it - in order to enrich themselves.

 

And Ringwraith, I have never argued with your so far unsupported assertion that people are dying from nuclear waste dumped in the sea off Somalia. I have simply asked for corroboration of your story, and you still haven't produced any (though I am sure you are googling away madly trying to find something).

 

You also persist in lying about what I said.

 

S

 

I've already said that I won't do your research for you, do it yourself you lazy, idiotic, liar.

 

You're floundering like a radiated Somalian Lobster, give it up.

[Chinahand]

Is it the word dying you want Sebrof - ok try this (I admit it says death, but I think even you will get the point):

 

Following the tsunami, communities along the Somali coast are now said to be experiencing a number of serious ailments. "Many people have complained of unusual health problems as a result of the winds blowing towards inland villages," says the report.

 

The ailments include acute respiratory infections, dry heavy coughing and mouth bleeding, abdominal haemorrhages and unusual skin chemical reactions. Others are dry heavy coughing, acute respiratory infections and sudden deaths after inhaling toxic materials.

 

What is your beef here?

 

Rather than trying to get to a bigger picture (and are you still going to say £300 million of catch poached by outsiders, nuclear and toxic waste in such concentrations that dust blown from it has caused sickness and death etc are not serious issues which are perfectly relevent to this issue) are you really going to pick at single words people have used like "lobster" and "dying".

 

I don't think anyone is pretending these are Somalia's only problems - and please don't cut and paste a sentence from Ringwraith, myself or anyone else - Ringwraith is more than likely a young bloke trying to make a point - sure he makes mistakes we all do, but he's turned the debate around to the more broader issues that killing pirates, or even convoying ships aren't going to solve the underlying issues.

 

Rather than accepting that point you've done everything you can to undermine the bloke - to a ridiculous level. The only person googling away has been me - Ringwraith just antagonistically told you to do your research yourself. While you've just complained the entire time.

 

I enjoy googling and believe I've shown reasonably authoritative sources that corroborate what Ringwraith is saying - £300 million of poaching is a significant loss, the toxic and nuclear dumping have been so serious that the UNEP, EU etc have investigated it. Are you really going to continue to hurmph about this - why?

[Lonan3]

and the word you want is "savour". Your spelling is an embarassment.

'Savor' is the American form of the word - based on the old English spelling. 'Savour,' currently used in UK English, is the spelling adopted when words of French appearance were considered fashionable.

[Ringwraith]

Ah, why not.

 

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/15/somal...ates-versu.html

 

Somali pirates versus European toxic-waste dumpers

 

Not all the Somali "pirates" are gangsters: some are locals who've watched their loved ones sicken and die after European toxic waste was dropped on their shores and decided to do something about it.

 

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

 

Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

 

The mafia connection: -

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/0...ly.nuclearpower

[Sebrof]

Is it the word dying you want Sebrof - ok try this (I admit it says death, but I think even you will get the point):

 

Following the tsunami, communities along the Somali coast are now said to be experiencing a number of serious ailments. "Many people have complained of unusual health problems as a result of the winds blowing towards inland villages," says the report.

 

The ailments include acute respiratory infections, dry heavy coughing and mouth bleeding, abdominal haemorrhages and unusual skin chemical reactions. Others are dry heavy coughing, acute respiratory infections and sudden deaths after inhaling toxic materials.

 

What is your beef here?

 

Please just read what I wrote, not what Ringwraith claims I wrote. If you do, you'll find that I have never disputed the nuclear waste/deaths allegations; I have only asked for evidence. Frankly, I have to say that the report you linked to makes very sobering reading. It's not exactly a widely reported issue, though it deserves to be. Thank you, Ringwraith, for drawing it (indirectly) to my attention.

 

Rather than trying to get to a bigger picture (and are you still going to say £300 million of catch poached by outsiders, nuclear and toxic waste in such concentrations that dust blown from it has caused sickness and death etc are not serious issues which are perfectly relevent to this issue) are you really going to pick at single words people have used like "lobster" and "dying".

 

Again, read what I wrote, not what RW claims I wrote.

 

I'm not at all concerned about lobster (as I said, I only mentioned it to demonstrate that Ringwraith had little knowledge of East African fishing), but I am concerned about allegations that people are dying. So, yes, I AM going to pick at words like "dying". And as a result of my doing so, you have uncovered something very significant, which both you and I would be unaware of if I hadn't requested evidence.

 

I don't think anyone is pretending these are Somalia's only problems - and please don't cut and paste a sentence from Ringwraith, myself or anyone else - Ringwraith is more than likely a young bloke trying to make a point - sure he makes mistakes we all do, but he's turned the debate around to the more broader issues that killing pirates, or even convoying ships aren't going to solve the underlying issues.

 

Well, I don't disagree with that last point at all. However, I do disagree that the piracy thing is a protest about fishing. In my view t's primarily a money-making scheme by the local war-lords using under-employed young men to do their dirty work for them. Solving any alleged fishing problems won't make the pirates disappear. That will only come by sorting out the governance issue.

 

Rather than accepting that point you've done everything you can to undermine the bloke - to a ridiculous level. The only person googling away has been me - Ringwraith just antagonistically told you to do your research yourself. While you've just complained the entire time.

 

I think you are reading this rather selectively. The name-calling and "inexactitudes" have been on RW's side. I have been under fierce attack by several people (and lesser species) since my first post, and have simply been defending myself. But I did fire the first salvo. I don't dispute that. One of my more attractive characteristics is that when in the wrong, I admit it.

 

I enjoy googling and believe I've shown reasonably authoritative sources that corroborate what Ringwraith is saying - £300 million of poaching is a significant loss, the toxic and nuclear dumping have been so serious that the UNEP, EU etc have investigated it. Are you really going to continue to hurmph about this - why?

 

Yes, we know you, and other people, enjoy googling, but there really is something to be said for leaving the comfort of your armchair and finding things out for yourself. I happen to know East Afica quite well (three generations of my family lived there) and my views may therefore not always accord with what is found on websites with axes to grind.

 

I hope you will have got the point by now that I have never taken issue with the waste claim. However, I do dispute that Somalia has "lost" £300 million worth of poached fish. Had the foreign trawlers not been there, the fish would have remained uncaught, so Somalia is not worse off. This point is the basis of my "beef" as you call it. Just refer back to my first post if you doubt it.

 

Now, perhaps we can get back on-topic.

 

S

[Sebrof]

Now down to reality. Pretending that the situation in Somalia is caused by illegal fishing is absurd. The pirates are simply the pawns of the warlords in the area, who have profited from a lack of effective government - indeed they have deliberately fomented it - in order to enrich themselves.

 

And Ringwraith, I have never argued with your so far unsupported assertion that people are dying from nuclear waste dumped in the sea off Somalia. I have simply asked for corroboration of your story, and you still haven't produced any (though I am sure you are googling away madly trying to find something).

 

You also persist in lying about what I said.

 

S

 

I've already said that I won't do your research for you, do it yourself you lazy, idiotic, liar.

 

You're floundering like a radiated Somalian Lobster, give it up.

 

Calm down, old chap. And please point out just one lie.

 

S

[Ringwraith]

Calm down, old chap. And please point out just one lie.

 

S

 

Firstly you said of the Somalian waters –

 

“Actually, tropical waters are seldom "rich", if by that you mean teaming with edible fish.”

 

They are ‘teeming’ with edible fish, you have now had the evidence of this.

 

Then you went on to say that only subsistence level fishing exists or has existed in Somalia –

 

“just a few chaps with canoes”

 

Even though you have been given evidence of the makings of a commercial fishing industry in Somalia, a fleet of commercial vessels and fishing under license and also joint venture operations with the Russians.

 

Next the nuclear issue, you claim to have never denied this, but have asked for evidence. But when I suggested that you do your own research on the issue you said this –

 

“So there isn't any evidence. Suspected as much.”

 

If that’s not a denial, I don’t know what is. But you have now had the proof you were too lazy to research for yourself, and yes hundreds have died.

 

Then of course we come to your denial of the existence of lobsters, your original comment on this subject was –

 

“there are no lobster”

 

Then you backtracked once Chinahand had posted a link you couldn’t be bothered to Google, and tried to deflect your comment onto clawed lobster.

 

Fact is Lobster do exist in Somali waters, in the deep waters where I told you they were, more than 2 types in fact. And these Lobsters stocks are plundered by foreign fishing vessels, and are sold in fine restaurants around the world as Lobster tail – they are marine Lobsters.

 

You’ve probably told more lies but I can’t be bothered reading any more of your crap, your ‘real world’ experience seems to amount to making yourself appear more important and knowledgeable than you really are – do you work for the government?

[Sebrof]

Calm down, old chap. And please point out just one lie.

 

S

 

Firstly you said of the Somalian waters –

 

“Actually, tropical waters are seldom "rich", if by that you mean teaming with edible fish.”

 

They are ‘teeming’ with edible fish, you have now had the evidence of this.

 

You have produced no evidence of this. Compared to the North Sea, tropical waters are poorly stocked.

 

Then you went on to say that only subsistence level fishing exists or has existed in Somalia –

 

“just a few chaps with canoes”

 

But before that, I said this: "Furthermore, fishing in these waters has traditionally been by dug-out canoe within the fringing reef. Subsistence level stuff." That is true. Their commercial fishing is tiny.

 

Even though you have been given evidence of the makings of a commercial fishing industry in Somalia, a fleet of commercial vessels and fishing under license and also joint venture operations with the Russians.

 

I haven't disputed that there is an embryonic commercial fishing industry. But it is tiny.

 

Next the nuclear issue, you claim to have never denied this, but have asked for evidence. But when I suggested that you do your own research on the issue you said this –

 

“So there isn't any evidence. Suspected as much.”

 

I didn't "claim" never to have denied it. I DIDN'T deny it. Remember this: "And what evidence do you have that the East African coast has been affected by nuclear waste? Not saying you are wrong about the nuclear angle, but you aren't very clued up about tropical fishing." That is not a denial in any sense of the word.

 

And you didn't "suggest" anything. You said: "Do your own research you lazy git." My reaction to that was therefore quite understandable.

 

If that’s not a denial, I don’t know what is.

 

It wasn't a denial; it was an attempt to get you to produce some evidence.

 

But you have now had the proof you were too lazy to research for yourself, and yes hundreds have died.

 

Hundreds now? Evidence?

 

Then of course we come to your denial of the existence of lobsters, your original comment on this subject was –

 

“there are no lobster”

 

Then you backtracked once Chinahand had posted a link you couldn’t be bothered to Google, and tried to deflect your comment onto clawed lobster.

 

Don't lie. This is what I said: "By the way, there are no lobster. Perhaps you meant the clawless crawfish. As opposed to the clueless Ringwraith.

 

Fact is Lobster do exist in Somali waters, in the deep waters where I told you they were, more than 2 types in fact. And these Lobsters stocks are plundered by foreign fishing vessels, and are sold in fine restaurants around the world as Lobster tail – they are marine Lobsters.

 

You still don't know the difference, do you? Lobsters have claws, crawfish don't. The two species you mentioned are crawfish. But it really isn't very important, except that you are lying about what I said.

 

You’ve probably told more lies but I can’t be bothered reading any more of your crap, your ‘real world’ experience seems to amount to making yourself appear more important and knowledgeable than you really are – do you work for the government?

 

It appears that you don't know the definition of the word "lie". It is a deliberate untruth, as when you deliberately misquote me, which you have done repeatedly. Examples above.

 

If any of my statements have been incorrect, they have not been lies because I believed (and still believe) them to be true. But so far, you have not shown that any of my statements were untrue.

 

Good night.

 

S

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I thought crayfish lived in freshwater.

[SScott]

Somalia again?

[Sebrof]

I thought crayfish lived in freshwater.

 

They do. We were talking about crawfish.

 

S

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I thought crayfish lived in freshwater.

 

They do. We were talking about crawfish.

 

S

 

Oh, but I was sure they were the same thing.

[Ringwraith]

More crap & lies.....

S

 

You are a total prat Sebrof. You did deny the nuclear issue when you said -

 

“So there isn't any evidence. Suspected as much.”

 

To now quote something you said before the above statement just shows how desperate you are.

 

You claimed I was clueless, and that you had lived in Somalia half your life, and had real life knowledge, and that the Somalian seas are not teeming with edible fish, and there were just a few chaps in canoes – and there are no Lobsters.

 

You have now been thoroughly discredited on all these points, but you still try to make out that you didn’t even say these things.

 

You were wrong, completely wrong, you were also too lazy to do your own research, why should I provide it for you after you insulted me and my original post - which was perfectly true?

 

You are a very odd character, everything I have said has been verified, other posters have even drawn your attention to links detailing the issues.

 

I don’t believe that you can have lived in Somalia for half your life, and think that the coastline is more than 3,000 miles long, not know about the fishing industry, not know that the seas are teeming with edible fish AND Lobsters, not know about the toxic and nuclear waste dumping.

 

I believe you are a liar, I don’t believe you think your statements are true, you just make them up as you go along, and then as with all liars you flap around desperately when your lies are exposed, trying to backtrack, sidestep this way and that in order to save face and credibility, quite silly really.