"Torture" Memos

[SScott]

When at any point did I say he didn't have a right to say anything?

If that was your whole point why didn't you just say that instead of that long, pointless, and incorrect ranting?

I never asked to be your friend.

I also have the freedom of speech don't I?

Sooo by your own words, I should be allowed to say what I want right?

Apparently there is sand in your vagina and it must be very irritating, maybe you should go wash it out.

Just a suggestion it's your pussy.

[bluemonday]

Wow, name calling, I'm gutted.

[SScott]

I didn't call you any names.

I merely suggested you wash the sand out of your vagina.

So why don't you take a deep breath, go out side and play a nice game of hide and go fuck yourself.

Thank you and have a wonderful day.

[bluemonday]

Now you've made me cry.

[SScott]

Now you've made me cry.

I'm sorry do you need a tissue or something?

[bluemonday]

No thanks, your need is far greater than mine I'm sure.

[SScott]

Come on now just because you can't come up with a single witty comeback (or even one that makes any sense whatsoever) there is no need to get all butt-sore.

It's like you're punch drunk and just flailing about blindly.

Quite pathetic really.

I expected much better.

Ok well I'm through with you now.

You're boring.

Ciao.

[bluemonday]

Hope you have a nice birthday.

Will the other members of Team America be joining you for jelly and ice cream?

[Chinahand]

SScott - didn't you have training on the laws of war?

 

Care to tell me which ones you want to get rid of. Obviously there is a messy reality - but law is about what we aspire to- and judges and juries and defence council and prosecutors all have a role if necessary in turning something which is a fog of war into a prosecution.

 

At the precise moment I'm not even sure I know what your problem is - you've just barged in and demanded who's had combat experience and said things (what things) are wrong.

 

I think you'll find a reasonable number of ex-squaddies post on this forum.

 

I'm not one of them, I never got beyond the cadets!

 

But I don't make up the Army Code, or the Army Manual, write standing orders about the Geneva conventions etc etc. Care to say which bits of these things you'd be happy to break without consequence from JAG?

 

I can comment on these things, read and listen to people like John McCain.

 

I find the idea that I cannot come to reasonable conclusions from doing that just because I haven't been in combat, interrogated someone, or being interrogated myself simply wrong - and if you are trully saying that then it is a huge arrogance on your part.

 

Society is plural - people with vastly different experiences from all over the world have attempted to create basic humanitarian principles for the treatment of people in war. Those laws are subject to debate and reform from all sides - that in my mind is right and proper and your seemed desire to ignore considered comments from people with a different experiences and point of view to you seems to show an intolerence I wouldn't be proud to display even on an anonymous internet forum.

 

I'm not convinced much is being gained by the media circus surrounding these memos - but that has nothing to do with the international laws developed to protect people from ill treatment in times of war.

 

I would expect if people broke those laws that they would be investigated and have to answer to a courts martial or such process.

 

If you can sit and say no such investigations are needed, you know all the answers, you've been in combat - well yippee for you. Your president disagrees, John McCain disagrees., I disagree.

 

People who do bad should not be able to sleep well at night: if their individual concience doesn't trouble them, then maybe the nag that others upholding ideals of justice are working to reveal what they have done will disturb their rest.

 

I think that is a good thing - don't you?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

We're British.

We're very good timekepers.

We have a habit of making sure we fight wars at the right time.

We don't sit on our arses for a few years waiting to see what happens before doing something.

World Wars 1 and 2 being a good example of our prompt attendance.

 

You don't really believe all this though do you BlueMonday?

[Lonan3]

We're Manx.

We're very poor timekepers.

We have a habit of making sure we fight wars when the UK government tells us to.

We'd prefer to sit on our arses for a few years waiting to see what happens before doing something.

 

Corrected!

[jimbms]

I would like a show oh hands.

How many of you have been in combat? Yes

How many of you have had to deal with drug dealers, murders, and terrorists on a regular basis on more than three different continents for longer than three years continuously? Yes

How many of you have spent more than three days in a third world country let alone three years? Yes (P.S. I enjoyed my 4 yrs in Africa)

How many of you know what the level of Al Qaeda even is, let alone ones government lowering it's self to that level even means? Yes the level of the treat from them is overstated we faced a far greater threat from the IRA, it may be higher in the USA but that is their own doing, after all they trained and financed them originally

 

 

I'm sorry most you have no clue about the reality of life outside of your very insulated bubble of reality. Wrong

[spanna]

Nazis were never tortured. They were captured and brought to trial.

Wrong, read the articles in prags posts.

 

As for who to interogate with these methods, the people who are high enough up in the chains who have the information. Obvious really. Thats pretty standard even into third world countries. Again read Bravo two zero.

 

Its completely obvious you are living in a fluffybunny hippie land with your posts about this subject.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Wrong, read the articles in prags posts.

 

I will, sounds interesting

 

As for who to interogate with these methods, the people who are high enough up in the chains who have the information. Obvious really. Thats pretty standard even into third world countries. Again read Bravo two zero.

 

Ok, so you believe you interrogate only those who you know will have that information. Well you offer some intelligent justification. It makes sense but we don't live in these third world countries you refer to.

 

Its completely obvious you are living in a fluffybunny hippie land with your posts about this subject.

 

No, actually I am recognising rules and standards by which we live. If such thoughts were the stuff of hippies then why has there been such a furore over the issue of torture, why has the USA and UK not been torturing its detainees on their soil, why have detainees been shuttled back and forth from one third world country to another? Why has there been attempts to keep much of this secret?

[WTF]

LDV a quick question for you:

You have caught a person you know behond doubt has planted an explosive device well hidden outside a school (any one of 30 possible schools) and it is timed to go off either on timed or if anyone leaves the school so you cant evacuate them. You're only chance of saving the childrens lives is to use agressive questioning methods to find the location of the device.

Would you still refuse to use this method even though a large number of children would die?

I require a yes or no answer, no waffle

 

If you knew he had planted a device and he was not forthcoming with information then yes, torture him.

Well I am shocked, you did answer without waffle, but as you see this is my point, in some cases it has to be used, but it should not be used as a norm.

 

 

knowing and suspecting are completely different though. you may recall that they were referred to as 'suspected' terrorists. not 'known' terrorists. and the law was not technically broken, even though it was obviously circumvented against any moral reason. on that note the UK using terror laws to seize KSF funds is just as out of order. my point being that legal, does not necessarilly mean acceptable. when you consider how the west keeps these countries in servitude for their assets though you can sympathise with them wanting us to fuck off, and we aren't going to leave quietly or voluntarilly. BOOOOM.