Iran Attacks Israeli Racism

[cheeky boy]

In a defiant speech, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad argued before a United Nations anti-racism conference Monday that Israel is a "paragon of racism," founded on what he called "the pretext of Jewish sufferings" during World War II.

 

Having encountered young Israelis on leave from their army I can confirm that they are certainly racist

and would give English football hooligans a run for their money in terms of arrogance and anti social behaviour

[slinkydevil]

Having encountered young Israelis on leave from their army I can confirm that they are certainly racist

and would give English football hooligans a run for their money in terms of arrogance and anti social behaviour

 

I met a lot when I was in India for 6 months and then again when I was travelling round Israel, boarding at youth hostels with Israeli soldiers on leave. I have to say I can only agree with you.

[The Bastard]

Met a few British Squaddies in my time, can't say that they were paragons of racial equality either.

 

Mind you, that didn't make me assume that the whole of Britain was run by the BNP, or call for it to be "wiped off the map", or hold conferences for all anti-British extremists.

[manshimajin]

In a defiant speech, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad argued before a United Nations anti-racism conference Monday that Israel is a "paragon of racism," founded on what he called "the pretext of Jewish sufferings" during World War II.

What you say about Jewish youths may be true but Ahmadi Nejad has some neck to point fingers at others. Iran is not exactly the outstanding model of a racially tolerant secular state. IMO his self-indulgent posturing has taken the focus away from the reason for the meeting.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Met a few British Squaddies in my time, can't say that they were paragons of racial equality either.

 

Mind you, that didn't make me assume that the whole of Britain was run by the BNP, or call for it to be "wiped off the map", or hold conferences for all anti-British extremists.

 

But was the President talking about the Israeli people or the Israeli state by way of its policies?

[Rog]

If by racist you mean having intense pride in our nationality and traditions and utter contempt for the pieces of human excrement who are hell bent on destroying the modern day Eretz Israel then add me to the list of racists.

 

If by racism you mean being utterly contemptuous of anyone who is not physically or visually an archetypical Jewish person – you know, hook nose, broad featured, swarthy complexion etc. then you’re talking mayse. (That’s Yiddish for ‘balls’ in the vulgar context btw.)

 

In Judaism the physical race of a person is not a factor.

 

Judaism as a religion (and so a nationality) is passed down the maternal parental line whereas the paternal line generally imposes physical factors. Hence you get Jewish people ranging from tall blue eyed and (once) fair haired people like me, to Sammy Davis Junior, both of us Jewish by maternal parentage, both of us physically poles apart.

 

Considering our past and modern history how can we be racist? Racism is anathema to us.

 

Nationalistic certainly, and rightly so.

 

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having intense pride and loyalty to ones nation and having such pride and openly expressing it doesn’t mean a person is being contemptuous of others.

 

Nor is it wrong to be hateful against those people who are trying to destroy us, that’s not being racist, that’s being sensible.

 

‘Racist’ and ‘Racism’ are two words that have totally lost their meaning and are now frequently being used to put down very worthwhile attitudes and perspectives.

[jimbms]

If by racist you mean having intense pride in our nationality and traditions and utter contempt for the pieces of human excrement who are hell bent on destroying the modern day Eretz Israel then add me to the list of racists.

 

If by racism you mean being utterly contemptuous of anyone who is not physically or visually an archetypical Jewish person – you know, hook nose, broad featured, swarthy complexion etc. then you’re talking mayse. (That’s Yiddish for ‘balls’ in the vulgar context btw.)

 

Considering our past and modern history how can we be racist? Racism is anathema to us.

So you see nothing wrong in the genocide of the Palistinian people or the murder of children i.e. El Shatal massacre, remember it was the Jewish people who evicted them from what was thier homeland without option to share, who made them second class citizens in the place of their birth. But as you regard Palestinian as excrement as a whole then I suppose you can justify the muder of them.

[Rog]

So you see nothing wrong in the genocide of the Palistinian people

 

 

So let’s start there. There is no genocide of the so called Palestinian people. The attempt at genocide is being made by the so called Palestinian people against the Israeli people, fortunately thus far they have failed in their repeated attempts.

 

--- or the murder of children i.e. El Shatal massacre,

 

Care to provide some more details about that?

 

remember it was the Jewish people who evicted them from what was thier homeland without option to share,

 

Nonsense.

 

The people in what was to become modern Israel left under instruction of the neighboring Arab nations or by coercion from their own factions prior to the declaration of war against Israel. many stayed and have since done very well as Israeli citizens

 

--- who made them second class citizens in the place of their birth.

 

Like there are no Arab members of the Knesset? get real.

 

But as you regard Palestinian as excrement as a whole then I suppose you can justify the muder of them.

 

I consider any population that behave in the appalling manner that so many of the so called 'Palestinian' Arabs do as the excrement of pigs that have been fed on a diet of gutter dogs.

 

I also pity the many so called 'Palestinians' who have been fed a diet of lies about their past and the facts of today by their leaders or those in surrounding states to whom having an enemy ‘without the gates of the city’ provides the best means of their people failing to concentrate on ‘the enemy within the city gates’.

 

Murder them all? Do you seriously think that if the intent of the people of Israel be they living in Israel or living in other countries wanted to wipe out the so called 'Palestinian' people there would still be any so called 'Palestinian' people walking the earth? The continued insinuation that there is a wish to destroy these people is an insult to all parties.

 

It’s an insult to Israel as it is totally untrue and it’s an insult to the so called 'Palestinians' as it’s one more lie that motivates them to fight and it’s an insult to outsiders as it muddies the waters by causing the terminally ignorant and prejudiced to believe that a permanent peace is not the absolute desire of Israel.

[magneto]

Some interesting reading

 

Yisrael Beiteinu

 

Lieberman Plan

 

ROG is this the kind of Nationalism you so proudly speak of

[Chinahand]

I can see that this thread is rapidly going to become little more than a place to express fixed rigid points of view.

 

Plus I think it is almost impossible to disentangle politics, religious and racial chauvanism.

 

The UN resolutions in 1948 created two states. I find it so hypocritical that Israelis make so much of their International legitimacy while refusing to acknowledge Palestine's. If Israel had been successfully invaded and snuffed out of existence via annexations etc then I cannot see Israelis ending their struggle and claiming that their destroyed state no longer has any legitimacy, but that is precisely what they expect the Palestinians to do, with their desires for self-determination trapped between Turkish Imperialism, Arab Pan-Nationalism and Zionism for much of its history.

 

The image Israel initially portrayed to the world was a secular, democratic state, engaged in a great struggle for existence - through kibbutz etc the Israeli people came together to build and preserve their state.

 

The image nowadays is one of a theocracy which allows fundamentalists to control its marriage laws, which discriminates against the ethnicity or religion of its citizens and which has a government some of whose members wish to expell large numbers of its own citizens, and which doesn't practice an eye for an eye, but rather a dozens eyes (often civillian) for every Israeli one.

 

Of course this theocracy can be compared with a similar theocracy encamped in the Gaza strip which is just as chauvanist, just as belligerent, and is only less violent due to its lack of resources and not its lack of desire to be violent.

 

I've always maintained that if Israel was left alone and not subject to continual attack it would respect its neighbours and desire to communicate and trade with them on equal terms. With peace its Arab minorities would become intigrated into Israeli society and its racial tensions would reduce.

 

I've also always felt that a land for peace compromise was possible - with a viable Palestinian state existing on most of the occupied territories with compomises made on both sides.

 

The trouble is I am finding it harder and harder to justify this. Nowadays a large proportion of Israeli's seem to desire a greater Israel encompassing far more than the lands designated in 1948. In desiring to sieze these lands they ignore the legitimate desires of the Palestinians and leave them with disfunctional bantustans - they then use the anger this causes to further their cause via walls to grab lands and the theft of water rights etc.

 

These actions futher disenfranchise Israel's Arab minorities and encourage a cycle of discrimination where the likes of Mr Lieberman can call for purely racist policies which treats any non-jew as an enemy.

 

This cycle is destroying the secular, modern, country I grew up admiring. And replacing it with the theocratic, racist, violent country unable to come to peace with its neighbours.

 

What saddens me is that the likes of Rog, and Lieberman and Netanyahu seem to celebrate this. I just see it as confirming my concerns.

 

When compared to Iran, or Hamas Israel is not a discriminatory (either due to race or religion) state - but those countries are not the standard Israel should be comparing itself with. I feel in reality Israel is lowering itself down to Iran's and Hamas' level - becoming ever more chauvanistic, discriminatory, racist. That is a sad thing, but seems to be the way its population wish to go.

 

Peace requires compromise - something lacking on all sides in the Middle East.

[alibaba]

http://www.closedzone.com/

[jimbms]

--- or the murder of children i.e. El Shatal massacre,

 

Care to provide some more details about that?

 

Certainly:

The El Shatila camp is located in southern Beirut. Originally hosting hundreds of refugees, it has grown to more than 12,000 registered Palestinian refugees. The Shatila camp suffered heavy bombardment from Israeli military forces during the summer of 1982. During a September 1982 push by the Israeli military into west Beirut, the military's Phalangist allies conducted an extensive series of raids on the Sabra neighborhood and the Shatila refugee camp. By noon of September 15th, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) had completely surrounded the Sabra-Shatila camps, and controlled all entrances and exits by the means of checkpoints. The IDF also occupied a number of multi-storey buildings as observation posts. Amongst those was the seven-storey Kuwaiti embassy which, according to TIME magazine, had "an unobstructed and panoramic view" of the camps. Hours later, IDF tanks began shelling the camps Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps to clean out terrorist nests. Under the Israeli plan, Israeli soldiers would control the perimeters of the refugee camps and provide logistical support while the Phalangists would enter the camps, find the PLO fighters and hand them over to Israeli forces. The first unit of 150 Phalangists entered the camps at 6:00 p.m. A battle ensued that at times involved lining up Palestinians for execution. For the next 36 to 48 hours, the Phalangists massacred the inhabitants of the refugee camps, while the Israeli military guarded the exits and allegedly continued to provide flares by night.

 

On December 16, 1982, the United Nations General Assembly condemned the massacre and declared it to be an act of genocide. in which they ""resolved that the massacre was an act of genocide", was adopted by ninety-eight votes to nineteen, with twenty-three abstentions.

 

So as you see it is a well documented event, the Israeli army managed to supply and get the christian malitia do do the dirty work for them whilst ensuring no refugees could escape the camp. Not only that but the bombarded a refugee camp full of civilians in the run up to the incursion into the camp killing hundreds.

 

Now I suppose you are going to deny this ever happened and it is just being made up by the worlds press to discredit Isreal, (mmm I remember hearing stories about a little Austrian corporal issuing simmilar denials about genocide in the 40's, he was also found to be lying).

[Rog]

The first state, that for the Arab population who didn’t want to live in what was to become modern day Eretz Israel, was created when Britain declared the region known as Trans Jordan to be the independent nation of Jordan.

 

The second state, modern day Israel, should have comprised of the remainder of the land.

 

So there already IS a state for the Arab population of the region of The British Mandated region of Palestine.

 

It is to the credit of the Israeli people that rather than simply take all of the region (that the British hadn’t illegally given away or horse traded in return for oil and access to the Suez Canal).

Instead in an attempt to gain peace they accepted a much reduced area of the remaining region even after the illegal act by Britain in ‘creating’ Jordan.

 

But even that was unacceptable to the Arabs who wanted NO Jewish population in what they claimed to be an Islamic ‘waaf’.

 

 

 

It’s almost amusing if it wasn’t so tragic, I first joined this forum years ago following a contribution about Israel by a member that was simply lies, lies that unfortunately so many people believe.

 

Perhapse because being about ‘Jews’ they WANT to believe them.

 

Nothing changes except the lies against Israel get bigger and more people believe them, especially the younger ones who simply don’t know any better.

 

There is a fairly good ‘Israel 101’ to be had and it’s remarkably impartial and can be verified by cross referencing other reliable sources, especially old newspapers that can be had on various web pages.

 

Try http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/

 

Now I KNOW there will be the usual screams of bias and how many of the events reported vary from the (commonly believed in spite of being false) reports elsewhere, but a bit of sensible cross referencing to legitimate and reputable sources show the amount of spin to be very minimal.

 

I'll deal with the reality about what took place at the 'refugee' camps in due course. There was an error of judgement by Arial Sharon but that is all it was, an error of judgement.

[Lonan3]

I'll deal with the reality about what took place at the 'refugee' camps in due course. There was an error of judgement by Arial Sharon but that is all it was, an error of judgement.

Oh, right. An 'error of judgement.' So that's okay, then?

[P.K.]

Don't lose sight of who actually carried out the murders in the Sabra and Shatila camps.

 

But what a headline this could make:

 

Manxforums Research Results Posted!

 

Some in-depth international research carried out on the Manxforums anonymous internet posting forum has discovered that:

 

"squaddies are nationalistic, self-confident bordering on arrogant due to the skills their training has given them and they can get very drunk as well!"

 

The next thing you know one of them will call a mate a "Paki" and get ridiculously accused of racism...