Rich Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Of course it will. Do people generally go 120mph through Santon? If you go through Santon in the morning and evening you will see many doing 80-90 mph (50 restricted). Anyone who goes that way can and will confirm this. Unknown reason? It's a section of a 'world famous road racing circuit' with no speed limit. Do you not think that encourages people to go fast on it? I don't fully believe that crosses most peoples minds to be honest and I'd hope they're not that simple (perhaps I'm wrong). I think it's to do with the fact people get the impression they can see round a lot of the road by looking across some of the open stretches to the road ahead and not realising how quickly on coming traffic is also moving, because they have the same idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwimanx Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 When I was learning how to drive in NZ you pass a written test first before getting a LEARNER license. You have that for a minimum of 6 months which is when you learn to drive with an instructor or at least a person over the age of 21 who has a full license for at least 2 years. You can then sit your driving test which is when (subject to passing of course) you get a RESTRICTED license. This entiltes you you drive between the hours of 7am and 10pm by yourself or with other people in the car as long as one the people are over 21 and had a full licnese for at least 2 years and therefore they take resposibilty for you ie: they must be sober, and sit in the front passenger seat etc...). You are then on your RESTRICTED license for 18 months unless you sit an advanced drivers course which then you only have to be restricted for 9 months. This worked for me as you don't have to prbolem of friends encourgaing you to show off etc... and if you do have an accident you are the only one in the car!!! Maybe the Isle of Man Gov could resort to similar ideas?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 If you go through Santon in the morning and evening you will see many doing 80-90 mph (50 restricted). Anyone who goes that way can and will confirm this. Some do, but I think you'll find the average speeds on the Santon straight far lower than the Creg to Brandish. I've nothing to back this up other than my own experience though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 If you go through Santon in the morning and evening you will see many doing 80-90 mph (50 restricted). Anyone who goes that way can and will confirm this. Some do, but I think you'll find the average speeds on the Santon straight far lower than the Creg to Brandish. I've nothing to back this up other than my own experience though. I don't doubt that for one second. I think my point is although it would take it to be implemented to prove it I don't think a speed limit would prevent silly speeders across the mountain. It would however reduce it and that's a different matter, which is why I started out saying I have nothing against it. I spend more time out at sea or on my mountain bike for my kicks nowadays anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I don't doubt that for one second. I think my point is although it would take it to be implemented to prove it I don't think a speed limit would prevent silly speeders across the mountain. It would however reduce it and that's a different matter, which is why I started out saying I have nothing against it. Yeah, I agree, someone who's going to break the law driving recklessly will ignore a speed limit, but if it brings the overall average speed down, and remove the 'race over the mountain' mentality for most, then I personally thing it'll help. I spend more time out at sea or on my mountain bike for my kicks nowadays anyway. That's it, I was over the mountain road on my bike on sunday, it was horrible, which is a shame, it's a great road to ride on if it wasn't for the tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 When I was learning how to drive in NZ you pass a written test first before getting a LEARNER license. You have that for a minimum of 6 months which is when you learn to drive with an instructor or at least a person over the age of 21 who has a full license for at least 2 years. You can then sit your driving test which is when (subject to passing of course) you get a RESTRICTED license. This entiltes you you drive between the hours of 7am and 10pm by yourself or with other people in the car as long as one the people are over 21 and had a full licnese for at least 2 years and therefore they take resposibilty for you ie: they must be sober, and sit in the front passenger seat etc...). You are then on your RESTRICTED license for 18 months unless you sit an advanced drivers course which then you only have to be restricted for 9 months. This worked for me as you don't have to prbolem of friends encourgaing you to show off etc... and if you do have an accident you are the only one in the car!!! Maybe the Isle of Man Gov could resort to similar ideas?? They have a similiar thing in Australia, youare only aloowed somemany passengers after you have passed for 12 months, also before taking your test you have a minimium number of training hours you have to do before being able to take your test. To be honest this has not stopped them being terrible for tailgating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 This discusion is all well and good, but as someone on "R" plates, Why when I stick to the speed limit do I have a car, van or lorry seemingly glued to my bumper almost all the time, nearly close enough to push me to go faster?, most people some to struggle doing 30mph uphill/downhill, use brakes or throttle accordingly! Over the mountain is even worse, I seem to get overtaken every 2 minutes or so, by L plates, R plates and everything else. Might get a camcorder and actually film what happens on a daily drive, impatience is unreal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 That's it, I was over the mountain road on my bike on sunday, it was horrible, which is a shame, it's a great road to ride on if it wasn't for the tools. There are miles of quieter and scenic places to cycle - other than directly on the Mountain Road. The speed limit debate is over - get over it, get used to it, and move on. You're saying the equivalent of wanting to have a cycle path on the M1 on the island. If you want to be a tit and put yourself at risk when you don't have to, just to make a point - be my guest. Roads are for all road users, not just cyclists, so also do your bit and apply a little commonsense and adapt - and as a cyclist give others some consideration too for once. Even if there was a limit up there, many parts of it would still be dodgy to ride on a bicycle and anyone with an ounce of commonsense would know that - as hit on a bend at 120 by a car or at 60 makes little difference - other than to the size of the splat. Even where there are speed limits in force on many other roads there are obviously still potentially dangerous and especially narrow roads on the island that cylists should try and avoid too - if they have any commonsense. And for gods sake I hope you don't take your family up cycling on the mountain road just to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 That's it, I was over the mountain road on my bike on sunday, it was horrible, which is a shame, it's a great road to ride on if it wasn't for the tools. Which is why I do mountain biking (off road). It is a shame though as it also spoils a leisurely drive back from oop north as well, but not everyone enjoys that side to the Island and want it to be more like the UK. I think to get the most out of living here you have to adapt to what it has to offer and you learn to appreciate it all the more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Rich, yeah I've a mountain bike too, but you've still got to hop on the roads from time to time. But I'm not talking just from a bike perspective, I do drive too, and go over the mountain at least twice a week, and it usually feels pretty hairy. The speed limit debate is over - get over it, get used to it, and move on. You're saying the equivalent of wanting to have a cycle path on the M1 on the island. The speed limit debate isn't over at all. I don't want the mountain road to be a cycle path, but I also don't want it to be a race track on a sunny Sunday morning. Like I said, I'm not talking simply from a cyclists perspective. There's no justification for the lack of a national speed limit on the island. And for gods sake I hope you don't take your family up cycling on the mountain road just to make a point. No, but why shouldn't I? It's a bloody road, not a race track. How do you suggest I get back from Jurby on my bike while avoiding any road without a speed limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 There are miles of quieter and scenic places to cycle - other than directly on the Mountain Road. You say later that roads are for every body but here you appear to suggest cyclists should not be on the mountain road. The speed limit debate is over - get over it, get used to it, and move on. You're saying the equivalent of wanting to have a cycle path on the M1 on the island. I do not think the debate will ever be over but to relate the mountain road to the M1 is ridiculous. It is also irrelevent as bicycles are presently banned from Motorways as are learners etc which is not he case on the mountain road If you want to be a tit and put yourself at risk when you don't have to, just to make a point - be my guest. Roads are for all road users, not just cyclists, so also do your bit and apply a little commonsense and adapt - and as a cyclist give others some consideration too for once. Again make up your mind. are they for all users or not. Even if there was a limit up there, many parts of it would still be dodgy to ride on a bicycle and anyone with an ounce of commonsense would know that - as hit on a bend at 120 by a car or at 60 makes little difference - other than to the size of the splat. Even where there are speed limits in force on many other roads there are obviously still potentially dangerous and especially narrow roads on the island that cylists should try and avoid too - if they have any commonsense. And for gods sake I hope you don't take your family up cycling on the mountain road just to make a point. This bit actually frightens me as a car driver as you appear to be putting the onus on the cyclist for it to be safe to ride on the mountain road. Bollocks. The onus is on all users and if as a driver you drive such that you could not avoid a cyclist on a narrow section of road then in my opinion you are deiving recklessly. Equally the point with regard to the bend is immaterial as how do yo not know around that corner is a broken down car, a que of sationery traffic etc. If you are driving so you could not safely stop you are driving to fast. I am not a cyclist but, away from Motorways, the view that a road is not safe enough for a cyclist to be on I find appalling as it directly indicates that the road is not safe full stop. If it is not safe for cyclists then it is not safe in many other situations in which case something should be done about it. I have to admit I would not complian if a speed limit was installed with average speed cameras at strtegic points to stop the nutters. I would also make it one way anti clockwise at weekends and bank holidays to stop those who treat the roads that make up the circuit as a race track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think that the big crashes involcing R plate drivers, usually turn out that they were driving at more than 50 anyway. So even if there is a 60 or 70mph limit, then what's to say they will stick to that??? Some people are infavour of limiting the engine size of an "R" plate driver. Even a 1.4 or 1.6 can probably get up to 80-100mph, so are you going to restrict it down to 1 or 1.2 litre?? If so then there will be loads of "sheds" driving around as they won't want to buy a "decent" car only to have to replace it in 12 months time. Others have suggested restricting the number of passengers you can carry or time restrictions. I know when I passed, my parents used me as a glorified taxi-driver. I couldn't afford my own car so used one of theirs. It was 1.4 and in return for being able to use it, and them having run me around for the previous 16 years, if they were out for the night, I dropped them off and picked them back up again. I'm not sure what can be done. One of my cousins learnt to drive in the UK and whilst it briefly covered dual carriageways, she never went above 50mph or out of lane 1. She passed her test and could then do 70 (although the normal motorway speed seems to be 80mph nowadays) up and down motorways. Maybe people who are being taught by an approved driving instructor could be allowed to drive at say up to 70mph and that part of their training should encourage them to drive at that speed on some de-restricted roads. Better to get used to driving that speed with an instructor next to you rather than pass your test and do it one night with your mates in a car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 This bit actually frightens me as a car driver as you appear to be putting the onus on the cyclist for it to be safe to ride on the mountain road. Bollocks. The onus is on all users and if as a driver you drive such that you could not avoid a cyclist on a narrow section of road then in my opinion you are deiving recklessly. Yada yada - I have a cycle too. I just keep away from regularly cycling where it's obviously too fookin dangerous - limits or no limits. That's the point. The number of half wit families I see on bikes with little kids tagging behind - on obviously dangerous and busy roads - beggars belief. Fook cyclists anyhoo, this thread has been hijacked by them - again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Yada yada - I have a cycle too. I just keep away from regularly cycling where it's obviously too fookin dangerous - limits or no limits. That's the point. The number of half wit families I see on bikes with little kids tagging behind - on obviously dangerous and busy roads - beggars belief. Fook cyclists anyhoo, this thread has been hijacked by them - again. You responded to the cycling part of my post, ignoring the rest. And that's after saying speed limits weren't appropriate to the discussion. Make your bloody mind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 You took it off topic, nobody else. Cyclists effing annoy me at times and I agree that there are times and places to cycle with the family. But and it is a huge but in my view if a Road is deemed too dangerous for a legitimate road user it is not necessarily that road user who should cop the blame or the ban. Roads should be safe for proficient cyclists and all other road users. If they are not something needs to be done about the road or those using it to make it safe for all. There is nothing wrong with roads being busy but they should not be "obviously dangerous". If they are then that needs rectifying Yada yada - I have a cycle too. I just keep away from regularly cycling where it's obviously too fookin dangerous - limits or no limits. That's the point. The number of half wit families I see on bikes with little kids tagging behind - on obviously dangerous and busy roads - beggars belief. Fook cyclists anyhoo, this thread has been hijacked by them - again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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