Are We Properly Preparing Our Young Drivers?

[Albert Tatlock]

You took it off topic, nobody else.

Really?

[gazza]

so slim what speed limit would u have as a max

 

Matching the UK single carriageway limit of 60mph would be a good start.

 

 

60mph, christ thats a bit slow aint it,

i would say if there had to be one, 80mph, but i like the fact u can open it up without worry of being done

[Rich]

Not enough Police enforcement is definitely true, I can go months without seeing a traffic officer on the road and I ride to and from work everyday, which covers a good 40 miles so not just a little jaunt up the road.

There was a time you'd see them in the regular spots all the time but now I never see any, not sure where the reduction has come about but it's definitely the case.

 

From a personal point of view I'm glad of this as it saves me being paranoid about my speed although I'm usually pretty good but anyone who says they stay perfectly in the limits 100% of the time is likely to be lying, but I can't help but feel if there were more sat on the road side there would be a reduction in chancers in both speed and vehicle condition.

[Fossils]

Not enough Police enforcement is definitely true, I can go months without seeing a traffic officer on the road and I ride to and from work everyday, which covers a good 40 miles so not just a little jaunt up the road.

 

Radar was out at KWC entrance this week.

[rednik]

Why is the IOM the only place in the world not to have a national speed limit? Is the whole world doing it wrong and we're right?

 

I may have a dodgy memory, but nearly all the recent serious accidents I can remember involved someone braking an existing limit. Be it a 50 restriction on R plates, and existing speed limit, or both. Do we actually have many accidents that occur in derestricted zones, as a direct result of people driving too quickly as opposed to badly?

 

Enforce the limits we have, then look at the figures and worry about a NSL. I hate the idea of collecting revenue from people driving a bit too quickly, but surely if everyone knew a camera would catch them if they went round Hilberry in excess of 40 and that they would be fined there would have been at least 3 less deaths over recent years that I recall.

[gazza]

Enforce the limits we have, then look at the figures and worry about a NSL. I hate the idea of collecting revenue from people driving a bit too quickly, but surely if everyone knew a camera would catch them if they went round Hilberry in excess of 40 and that they would be fined there would have been at least 3 less deaths over recent years that I recall.

 

the camra would prob be burned down in a week, anyone remember the one in ballaugh

[Slim]

Gazza, if the mountain road was in England, that's the speed limit it would have.

 

I may have a dodgy memory, but nearly all the recent serious accidents I can remember involved someone braking an existing limit. Be it a 50 restriction on R plates, and existing speed limit, or both. Do we actually have many accidents that occur in derestricted zones, as a direct result of people driving too quickly as opposed to badly?

 

Yeah, but it's often a limit as you come out of a de-restricted part. Setting a national speed limit would, in my opinion, bring the average speed down.

[hboy]

I note the debate regarding a national speed limit but the point I was trying to make was at the moment we cannot, because of the L plate restriction, train our drivers to drive safely to the speed limits we do have. We already have speed limits at 60mph but our learner drivers have never experienced speeds over 50mph - until the celebratory day when they tear up the R plate! Under the present regulations, a national speed limit would not help - we would still have the situation where a driver is limited to 50mph all the way through their training and then, after 12 months, can suddenly drive at 70mph or whatever the national speed limit was set at.

 

The Top Gear repeat on Sunday re-ran the bit about the testing system in Finland which seemed totally sensible and explained why so many Fins are top class rally or racing drivers.

 

Part of the driving test preparation was 3 days on a skid pan. 3 days! Then they send you off into the forest in a Mark 2 Escort to teach you how to drive sideways at high speed.

 

Maybe elements would be helpful here.

[rednik]

[quote name='Slim' date='Apr 28 2009, 08:29 PM' post='423537'

 

Yeah, but it's often a limit as you come out of a de-restricted part. Setting a national speed limit would, in my opinion, bring the average speed down.

 

So isn't just enforcing the limits we have, rather than creating new ones for people to ignore a better solution?

 

re burinng speed cameras. I'd be dead against pointless revenue generators, if say for example they stuck one in the stupid 30 limit between QB and Braddan Bridge. Anyone who took a dislike to camera somewhere like Hilberry, which would genuinely serve to reduce peoples speeds for that corner, and so potentialy reduce accidents, would deserve all they got if they set fire to themselves at the same time.

[gazza]

Gazza, if the mountain road was in England, that's the speed limit it would have.

 

but we not in england, well last time i looked,

 

and how many young drivers are killed in england, and thay have a limit!!!

 

, and so potentialy reduce accidents, would deserve all they got if they set fire to themselves at the same time.

 

have to agree on that

[%age]

I suggested to the minister of transport that the age at which the driving test can be taken should be raised from 16 to 18. However, still allow 16 year old children to learn, as they can now.

 

A very good suggestion.

 

I have a few points:

 

I think the general standard of instruction on the Island is poor and is not comprehensive enough. The driving instructors I know have usually tried something else as a job and seemed to have just dropped on the job (it does help to be in a certain club too). Like any teaching it should be a vocation but perhaps these days that is too much to ask.

 

The Test on the Isle of Man should be such that everyone passing is the standard of an Advanced Driver.

 

To have gained a driving license on the Isle of Man should be something to be proud of throughout the world. The Road Racing Capital of the World, after all.

[Lost Login]

Enforcing is one think, but like all laws making the punishment a deterrent is equally important. There is no point enforcing if the consequences are minimal.

 

Look at drink driving as an example. We know there is a ban amd possibly imprisonment if caught so the vast majority do not take the risk. If it was a small fine and 3 points would we all be so careful probably not.

 

If the punishment for speeding was an automatic ban then I reckon you would immediately cut out most of it even if the risk of being caught was low. The majority of us would not want to risk the consequences of being caught.

 

Ok I am not advocating that but may be a system were a fine if within 5 mph of the speed limit and a point for every mph above that. Which would mean 17 mph above the speed limit equals 12 points and an automatic ban. Or maybe 1 point for every 2 mph of the speed limit so 24 mph over the limit would equal a ban.

 

Ultimately we can have as much speeding etc on the Island as we are prepared to put up with, but to reduce requires the implementation of harsh penalties and maybe technology to assist catching those who break the law. Would there be much support for that extrememly unlikely as the vast majority of us do not treat speeding as a serious offence or we would not do it. And what do we argue about our speeding, that we only do so when it is safe do do so allowing for the conditions etc

 

 

 

 

 

Enforce the limits we have, then look at the figures and worry about a NSL. I hate the idea of collecting revenue from people driving a bit too quickly, but surely if everyone knew a camera would catch them if they went round Hilberry in excess of 40 and that they would be fined there would have been at least 3 less deaths over recent years that I recall.

[Slim]

Gazza, what makes Manx roads special?

 

So isn't just enforcing the limits we have, rather than creating new ones for people to ignore a better solution?

 

No, because I think a limit would lower average speeds which means you wouldnt have the hotspots. Why not do both? If you believe limits need to be enforced, why would you be against a national limit?

[Lost Login]

I suggested to the minister of transport that the age at which the driving test can be taken should be raised from 16 to 18. However, still allow 16 year old children to learn, as they can now.

 

A very good suggestion.

 

I have a few points:

 

I think the general standard of instruction on the Island is poor and is not comprehensive enough. The driving instructors I know have usually tried something else as a job and seemed to have just dropped on the job (it does help to be in a certain club too). Like any teaching it should be a vocation but perhaps these days that is too much to ask.

 

 

I agree in principal aalthough I might allow the test to be taken at 17 rather than 16.

 

I am not sure about blaming it on the instructors as I think once you have learned the basics becoming a competent driver is down to experience and getting time and miles behind the wheel. That is where maybe learners in the UK have an advantage as it is probably easier to get miles under the belt ferrying parents about as you are learning as generally people do a lot more miles in the UK. It is what "taught" me to drive as OK I had had lessons and maybe would have passed my test but it was taking my parent to see relatives over Easter and a few weekends away that got me proficient as I would get some decent mileage in and on different unknown roads.

 

In the Island most journeys are only a few miles so it is probably more difficult to get the miles in and there are few roads where you can tootal along at 50mph or so for a decent stretch except the mountain road, but that brings us back to square 1 with regard to the speed of other vehicles and the racetrack mentality of some on the mountain road.

[rednik]

Gazza, what makes Manx roads special?

 

So isn't just enforcing the limits we have, rather than creating new ones for people to ignore a better solution?

 

No, because I think a limit would lower average speeds which means you wouldnt have the hotspots. Why not do both? If you believe limits need to be enforced, why would you be against a national limit?

 

In an ideal world I wouldn't have any limits at all, and would rely on people to drive to their own ability, the road conditions, the road layout etc. Unfortunately we all know that would never work.

 

I enjoy driving quickly, on a bike and in a car, and also hold an advanced driving qualification. I haven't seen any evidence that we need to implement a blanket national speed limit. I do think we need to enforce some of the limits we already have. I would definately encourage youngsters to do advanced driving courses, and would be strongly in favour of restricting them from carrying young passengers and driving late at night,

 

I really don't believe in the "speed kills" culture we have these days. Driving stupidly, driving at 40mph through a village, driving a clapped out old car, driving as a newly qualified driver with a car full of mates, are all much more potentially dangerous and easy to enforce, than an experienced driver in a well looked after car doing 90mph up the mountain mile.

 

I know which one gets frowned upon the most by a large percentage of road users, and they are generally the same ones who will drive from Lord Street to Peel at a steady 45mph and tut at the people who overtake them on the wide, open, NSL sections at 70