Lost Login Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I have to admit that I basically agree and in general I have to agree with DoE’s stance that kids should not generally be taken out of school for holidays in term time, although they have been a bit heavy handed about it. I do though not want a blanket ban, as I am comfortable with the odd day here and there for good reason. e.g. if you want a week at center parcs over a half term then there is really no option as you can only book from a Monday or a Friday. There are also those whose holidays are restricted by work, or are using holidays to visit families and the school holiday dates match up. I am also comfortable with kids occasionally been taken out off school for holiday’s where that is really the only option. e.g to say visit Lapland & father Christmas, to accompany parents one has to go on a works trip abroad and it is worth making a holiday out of it. What I do not agree with is parents taking kids out of school every year for a holiday just because it saves a bit of money, especially by parents who could can afford to pay the higher price. If you can not afford the higher price then choose a cheaper holiday or go once every two years. Again I have no beef with parents who generally can not afford to go during holiday time but for those that is the case I would expect such time off be a one off having scrimped and saved, it would not be every year. Presently what I see at my kids school and some others is that parents, some of which are my family and friends, think it is their right to take kids out for holidays. I have seen kids go on holiday to London the first week after the Easter break, I have seen kids being taken out of school pre Christmas to visit family and friends in the UK, I know of families who are now in Florida, ones who every year take the same week off to go to Blackpool. Each of these I know reasonably well and I am fully aware that there are no financial, personal or work restrictions that mean they could not afford to do in the school holidays. To me it is they who are being selfish, abusing the system and who should be targeted Any parent who takes their children out of school during term time is selfish. On so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I have to admit that I basically agree and in general I have to agree with DoE’s stance that kids should not generally be taken out of school for holidays in term time, although they have been a bit heavy handed about it. I do though not want a blanket ban, as I am comfortable with the odd day here and there for good reason. e.g. if you want a week at center parcs over a half term then there is really no option as you can only book from a Monday or a Friday. There are also those whose holidays are restricted by work, or are using holidays to visit families and the school holiday dates match up. I am also comfortable with kids occasionally been taken out off school for holiday’s where that is really the only option. e.g to say visit Lapland & father Christmas, to accompany parents one has to go on a works trip abroad and it is worth making a holiday out of it. What I do not agree with is parents taking kids out of school every year for a holiday just because it saves a bit of money, especially by parents who could can afford to pay the higher price. If you can not afford the higher price then choose a cheaper holiday or go once every two years. Again I have no beef with parents who generally can not afford to go during holiday time but for those that is the case I would expect such time off be a one off having scrimped and saved, it would not be every year. Presently what I see at my kids school and some others is that parents, some of which are my family and friends, think it is their right to take kids out for holidays. I have seen kids go on holiday to London the first week after the Easter break, I have seen kids being taken out of school pre Christmas to visit family and friends in the UK, I know of families who are now in Florida, ones who every year take the same week off to go to Blackpool. Each of these I know reasonably well and I am fully aware that there are no financial, personal or work restrictions that mean they could not afford to do in the school holidays. To me it is they who are being selfish, abusing the system and who should be targeted Any parent who takes their children out of school during term time is selfish. On so many levels. it isnt really fair to say poorer families can have the kids miss school, but rich kids can't cos the parents can afford the holiday at peak times!! in the grand scheme of things, the poorer kids who may require the education more than the rich kids for job/career prospects could actually be disadvantageing themselves further. i would say if the child normally has a 99% type attendance record and is doing well in their education such that missing a few days wont hurt them, then maybe missing a week won't hurt, rich or poor. but if it's a 70% attendance truancy expert with a list of warnings etc, then they shouldn't be allowed to dodge even more schooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Not what I was really trying to say which is basically that I have sympathy with regard to taking kids out of school for a poor family who say once every five years saves just enough money to have a half decent family holiday provided it is out of peak holiday times whereas I do not do for a famaily who can actually afford to go during holiday time, and these people may not be rich, and do it habitually. I would hope that it would also tie into a good attendance record, as those that abuse the system by taking kids out now every year for 10 days would not have that good attendance record. In the end without giving specific examples or going into explanations generally I have no problem with the odd day here or there if it ties into travel etc, or the odd holiday in term time for those with good attendance. However the odd holiday does not mean up to 10 days every year for a routne family holiday. Rather it is avaialble as an exception to be used infrequently to take an opportunity which would not otherwise be avaialble. Presently the ten days "rule" is in my opinion being abused as it is being used by many to take every year a holiday in term time which they could just as easily take in the school holidays. it isnt really fair to say poorer families can have the kids miss school, but rich kids can't cos the parents can afford the holiday at peak times!! in the grand scheme of things, the poorer kids who may require the education more than the rich kids for job/career prospects could actually be disadvantageing themselves further. i would say if the child normally has a 99% type attendance record and is doing well in their education such that missing a few days wont hurt them, then maybe missing a week won't hurt, rich or poor. but if it's a 70% attendance truancy expert with a list of warnings etc, then they shouldn't be allowed to dodge even more schooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Not what I was really trying to say which is basically that I have sympathy with regard to taking kids out of school for a poor family who say once every five years saves just enough money to have a half decent family holiday provided it is out of peak holiday times whereas I do not do for a famaily who can actually afford to go during holiday time, and these people may not be rich, and do it habitually. I would hope that it would also tie into a good attendance record, as those that abuse the system by taking kids out now every year for 10 days would not have that good attendance record. In the end without giving specific examples or going into explanations generally I have no problem with the odd day here or there if it ties into travel etc, or the odd holiday in term time for those with good attendance. However the odd holiday does not mean up to 10 days every year for a routne family holiday. Rather it is avaialble as an exception to be used infrequently to take an opportunity which would not otherwise be avaialble. Presently the ten days "rule" is in my opinion being abused as it is being used by many to take every year a holiday in term time which they could just as easily take in the school holidays. it isnt really fair to say poorer families can have the kids miss school, but rich kids can't cos the parents can afford the holiday at peak times!! in the grand scheme of things, the poorer kids who may require the education more than the rich kids for job/career prospects could actually be disadvantageing themselves further. i would say if the child normally has a 99% type attendance record and is doing well in their education such that missing a few days wont hurt them, then maybe missing a week won't hurt, rich or poor. but if it's a 70% attendance truancy expert with a list of warnings etc, then they shouldn't be allowed to dodge even more schooling. sort of i suppose, but it still looks like one rule for A and a different rule for B. also local terms can differ between schools ( i think the buchann and king bills are different? ) and also terms in the UK, ( no TT week ). so if you are going to visit familly or even have kids in 2 different schools with different term dates, it can add to the timing aspect. in pure education time, whether you are off 'sick' or on holiday makes no real difference. and if there is a '10 day rule', it can hardly be being abused if it is being used as intended?? i see what you are saying, but the now cancelled 'hard line' was not really the answer. all you will end up with is a 'sick note' justifying the abscence anyway. lastly, parents can't decide when uncle billy's funeral is or when someone gets married, so not all holiday/abcence timings are the parents choice of dates though i'm sure they would be allowable exceptions. i seem to recall a recent story where the parents of a girl got a threatening letter from the school re poor attendance only to have to be reminded that their daughter had been dead a month!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 That is probably the problem in that it may not be used as intended. i.e. The DOE view it being introduced to cover occasional days off or special circumstances/opportunities where as some parents are abusing it and treating it as their kids having the right to ten days off on holiday per year every year. In my view all that was required was a reminder off this rather than the harsh line that was taken as all it did was annoy the majority of the parents rather than address those Parents who were and in my view continue to abuse the system and if there is a '10 day rule', it can hardly be being abused if it is being used as intended?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 That is probably the problem in that it may not be used as intended. i.e. The DOE view it being introduced to cover occasional days off or special circumstances/opportunities where as some parents are abusing it and treating it as their kids having the right to ten days off on holiday per year every year. In my view all that was required was a reminder off this rather than the harsh line that was taken as all it did was annoy the majority of the parents rather than address those Parents who were and in my view continue to abuse the system and if there is a '10 day rule', it can hardly be being abused if it is being used as intended?? fair comment, i suppose there must have been quite a few claiming what they saw ( possibly wrongly ) as their ten day rights! ( for the DOE to want to try and address the issue, but in a poorly chosen manner?? ) when as you point out is probably not what was really intended. it may have been put in as a get out clause for parents keeping kids off school during term times for valid family reasons which common sense would say overruled the need to attend school without putting them the wrong side of the law and also negating the possible need for some sort of a commitee to have to make the yes/no decission on whether the kids abscence was ok or not, and then whether to use the law. as is typical of local legislation there would appear to be 5 or 6 different interpretations and enough bad wording for a bucket full of loopholes all the way through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 i suppose there must have been quite a few claiming what they saw ( possibly wrongly ) as their ten day rights! What, like people who proudly claim that ever since their children were born they've been on holidays during term-time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 i suppose there must have been quite a few claiming what they saw ( possibly wrongly ) as their ten day rights! What, like people who proudly claim that ever since their children were born they've been on holidays during term-time? not quite like that, by 'claiming' i meant taking their entitlement, like claiming dole. not claim as in 'proclaim' of the verbal variety. the schools must have noticed that more than 1 or 2 kids were off school for family holidays enough to consider it an issue that they thought needed looking at. i'm not against kids missing a few days to fit in with family plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I'd just like to inquire as to how many days do school teachers get off a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 13 weeks when they are not required to be in school. It is generally accepted that they will be working at some point during those holidays, but how much of them depends on the teacher and the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 13 weeks when they are not required to be in school. It is generally accepted that they will be working at some point during those holidays, but how much of them depends on the teacher and the school. but the emotional stress of an enviroment full of other peoples kids far out weighs the 'benefit' of a few more weeks off work a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 13 weeks when they are not required to be in school. It is generally accepted that they will be working at some point during those holidays, but how much of them depends on the teacher and the school. Just wondered also Sarah, as to why the Summer holiday recess is 6 weeks? Would it benefit people if this was broken up into 2 three week holidays, or would it cause more problems? Basically, I don't know, but I would like to know if anyone can shed some light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Someone once told me that back in the olden days, when the plague was rife, Parliament in London was closed down for the whole summer so that they could get out of there and not die of the plague. It just seems to have been a tradition that's been adopted and carried on. Although I have heard other stories (the details of which I've forgotten) so I've no idea if it's true. As for whether it's better to have shorter, more frequent holidays, I have no idea. I guess it's a case of when do you have them? I think most terms are between 5 and 8 weeks before a break so it must be hard to squeeze more holiday time into that. One thing I am sure about is that prices of holidays would not drop if there were more holidays, it would just be more expensive and full of children for more times of the year - a bit annoying for those who want to go on holiday without children all over the resort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 What, like people who proudly claim that ever since their children were born they've been on holidays during term-time? I'm taking it you're referring to the post I made. I wasn't "proudly claiming" anything, just stating that my children's education has never suffered from missing a week or so of school for a holiday once a year. They've also caught up on any missed work in their own time, no special treatment from the teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 once a year Taken as of right, precisely how it's meant NOT to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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