North Korea

[bluemonday]

Amazing, some years ago I recall reading that they had food shortages so severe that people were eating grass to try and survive; yet they deem it a priority to have nukes and test them.

 

Clicky

[bluemonday]

And there's more

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8067711.stm

What are they trying to prove?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Nevermind just the spending on nuclear weapons, that is one aspect of their military spending.

But yeah, the people are going hungry, but why would the government give a shit? As long as they have control over the populace, which they clearly do, it doesn't matter to them.

 

What is very amusing are the videos that are on YouTube about North Korea. There are loads and they all feature aspects of the country. It is however the most awful propaganda I have seen. What I don't understand are the comments on those video from lots of different people who actually think North Korea is a nice place to live in and that the dictator is a some hero.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

And there's more

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8067711.stm

What are they trying to prove?

 

That they have a deterrent against American economic and military imperialism. And that the populace is focused on some hyped-up antagonism between capitalism and their supposedly better way of life.

[Chinahand]

LDV, I suppose your political beliefs have some sympathy about needing a deterrence "against American economic and military imperialism".

 

I, for one, am very unsympathetic - looking at the life on either side of the 38th Parallel its very obvious to me that American economic and military imperialism has been a good thing for the people of South Korea and, but for the paranoia and ideological indoctrination of the thugs ruling the North, their people could benefit from it too.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

LDV, I suppose your political beliefs have some sympathy about needing a deterrence "against American economic and military imperialism".

 

Did I betray some sympathy for the elite of North Korea? I didn't think I had. Though I understand why they would want it. If they don't want to be part of the current global economic order and embrace what misleadingly termed globalism then it is a deterrent they need. But it is a despicable system they have, worse of course than liberal democracy and economically stagnant and inefficient.

 

But I would have little sympathy with any military intervention, as very unlikely as it would be.

 

American economic and military imperialism has been a good thing for the people of South Korea and, but for the paranoia and ideological indoctrination of the thugs ruling the North, their people could benefit from it too.

 

They could benefit economically...most of them anyway.

[P.K.]

Benefit economically? The reason the regime can do what it likes is because it's estimated (it basically has to be) that they spend 25% of the nations GDP on "Defence". Out of a population of about 25 million they have 1 million in the Armed Forces. That's probably just about everyone in the 18-25 bracket.

 

I'm hoping it's their usual bluster so they then get bought off with US aid as per usual. But with Obama newly elected - who knows???

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Benefit economically? The reason the regime can do what it likes is because it's estimated (it basically has to be) that they spend 25% of the nations GDP on "Defence". Out of a population of about 25 million they have 1 million in the Armed Forces. That's probably just about everyone in the 18-25 bracket.

 

I'm hoping it's their usual bluster so they then get bought off with US aid as per usual. But with Obama newly elected - who knows???

 

Doubt much will change just because there is a new face in the White House. North Korea's weapons are an excellent bargaining chip and the NK regime knows this. If North Korea can behave a little then it gets some food. As much as the regime likes to pretend and lie to its people about the country being autarkistic, it heavily depends on China and some other nations for food.

[bluemonday]

Figures just on BBC

Estimated 2 million died of starvation since 1995 and 1 in 3 is malnourished in NK now.

Explains why with a population of 25 million, the army is 1 million.

To keep them under control.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Figures just on BBC

Estimated 2 million died of starvation since 1995 and 1 in 3 is malnourished in NK now.

Explains why with a population of 25 million, the army is 1 million.

To keep them under control.

 

Is there much need in North Korea? (As with the western capitalist countries), when information is used to control the population why the need for the state to use force?

For those who are not utterly indoctrinated into all the awful state socialist propaganda and personality worship of their Great Leader a person who had doubt were have great difficulty in airing them. Who would they declare their doubts and criticisms to? Their work colleagues, friends, family, etc.? It is the police they would fear. But would they not also be shunned by their family and friends?

 

I am curious though. I do wonder just how indoctrinated the population are and what their real feelings are towards the regime, especially in consideration of the food shortages you mention.

[bluemonday]

I'd image they wouldn't dare say how they really feel in case.

[P.K.]

The stakes are rising:

 

North Korea says it has abandoned the truce that ended the Korean war, amid rising tension in the region.

It blamed its decision on South Korea joining a US-led initiative to search ships for nuclear weapons.

It said the South's actions were a "declaration of war", and pledged to attack if its ships were stopped.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The stakes are rising:

 

North Korea says it has abandoned the truce that ended the Korean war, amid rising tension in the region.

It blamed its decision on South Korea joining a US-led initiative to search ships for nuclear weapons.

It said the South's actions were a "declaration of war", and pledged to attack if its ships were stopped.

 

I haven't read into the details, but what right do other nation's warships have to stop North Korean vessels?

[Chinahand]

Its the The Proliferation Security Initiative - a US invention.

 

As far as I am aware though North Korea may not be a signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty most other nations of the world are - except India, Pakistan, and Israel - so if North Korea tries to sell this sort of stuff to other countries than these then they can be legitimately stopped as they are breaking the purchasers treaty commitments.

 

Its dubious in international law, but nuclear proliferation is one of the biggest international threats. I wish countries such as China and Russia would take firmer action to stop it occurring rather than stalling, resulting in dubious US attemtps to police the issue - it should be robustly internationally policed - China and Russia are refusing to live up to their responsibilities by not letting that occur.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Its the The Proliferation Security Initiative - a US invention.

 

As far as I am aware though North Korea may not be a signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty most other nations of the world are - except India, Pakistan, and Israel - so if North Korea tries to sell this sort of stuff to other countries than these then they can be legitimately stopped as they are breaking the purchasers treaty commitments.

 

Its dubious in international law, but nuclear proliferation is one of the biggest international threats. I wish countries such as China and Russia would take firmer action to stop it occurring rather than stalling, resulting in dubious US attemtps to police the issue - it should be robustly internationally policed - China and Russia are refusing to live up to their responsibilities by not letting that occur.

 

An additional problem is that the whole system of international law surrounding proliferation is unfair and the behaviour of the nuclear weapon states is hypocritical.

 

The United States, Britain, etc... have not abided by the treaty. They have not made efforts to disarm. Rather they upgrade their equipment and have the audacity to bully other nations into not having these weapons.