manxman2 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 nice use of the word we there .. exactly what are we going to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenose 52 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm sure at the end of the day we have all thought about these unfortunate people and we all agree we need to know what went wrong and what can be done to prevent this from happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Well all I can imagine is how terrifying it was. Even mildly bumpy flights cause my arse to grip on to the seat so being thrown around in a tropical storm doesn't bear thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1man Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Not fuel problems. I was thinking more about the financial cost/benefit consideration when deciding whether to circumnavigate a storm or not Yup, commerical pressure is a major problem nowadays.. you just have to look at ryanair. sorry r1. I dont buy terrorism. The first acars message was ap disconnect.. then a few minutes later another system disconnect then another few minutes passed and then cabin vertical speed warning. Now unless your thinking hijack. Theres no way its a bomb. This a/c was grounded 4 days earlier in bangalore with a major electrical fault. Ill put my 50p on severe turbulence combined with heavy lightning strikes causing major electrical malfunction and therefore loss of control. Spanna, what I was saying was that I think terrorism can be discounted for now, not that it was terrorism. My point was that AF discounted it almost immediately and so AF must be in receipt of more information than is currently in the public domain for them to dismiss terrorism so quickly. As for ACARS, my understanding is that the chronological sequencing can’t be relied on – it doesn’t necessarily transmit messages in the sequence it receives them in. Another reason to find the DFDR. But then I am not a Lazy-Onics Engineer so I stand to be corrected! The order in which you describe things could explain the incident but early indications suggest that the debris is spread over a wide area which might suggest that the aircraft returned to kit form prior to hitting the water. Speculation of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanna Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Ah right. misread your post sorry. But yeah I agree on break up inflight. Major loss of control would result in a break up of the aircraft wouldnt it. That order of acars messages were released by AF with zulu timings so im assuming they are correct. If the Cvr survived that must have the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Not fuel problems. I was thinking more about the financial cost/benefit consideration when deciding whether to circumnavigate a storm or not Yup, commerical pressure is a major problem nowadays.. you just have to look at ryanair. sorry r1. I dont buy terrorism. The first acars message was ap disconnect.. then a few minutes later another system disconnect then another few minutes passed and then cabin vertical speed warning. Now unless your thinking hijack. Theres no way its a bomb. This a/c was grounded 4 days earlier in bangalore with a major electrical fault. Ill put my 50p on severe turbulence combined with heavy lightning strikes causing major electrical malfunction and therefore loss of control. Spanna, what I was saying was that I think terrorism can be discounted for now, not that it was terrorism. My point was that AF discounted it almost immediately and so AF must be in receipt of more information than is currently in the public domain for them to dismiss terrorism so quickly. Not that it is likely to be terrorism, though it could be possible, I was under the impression that a bomb would not necessarily destroy a plane within second. Could not a small bomb cause such severe problems that would the lead to break-up over minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'm sure at the end of the day we have all thought about these unfortunate people and we all agree we need to know what went wrong and what can be done to prevent this from happening again. I suppose we all have given a little thought to their deaths. Though it isn't difficult to be light-hearted about it. It is just the way things are. There are so many accidents and terrible things where people have died that death becomes all too familiar. It would be difficult to feel or appear solemn all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1man Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Ah right. misread your post sorry. But yeah I agree on break up inflight. Major loss of control would result in a break up of the aircraft wouldnt it. That order of acars messages were released by AF with zulu timings so im assuming they are correct. If the Cvr survived that must have the answers. I think it depends on what a ‘major loss of control’ involves. For example the loss of a flight control surface(s) that put an aircraft into high G or negative G configuration would likely result in an airborne break up, or thinking about it the electrical failures allegedly noted (autopilot had disengaged, the fly by wire system had changed to alternate law, there were messages regarding ADIRU and ISIS faults, PRIM 1 and SEC 1 faults and an advisory regarding cabin vertical speed) combined with flight in turbulent air could make the aircraft uncontrollable and result in high / negative G that would cause a break up. Although I have listed the alleged noted ACARS faults in order of Z transmission, note also that AF said that the sequence of those messages could not be independently verified. So for example, the ADIRU failure would more likely lead to the AP disconnect rather than the other way round. It is why the DFDR and CVR are critical to establishing the sequence of events. Since you obviously have the same sources as I do, you know which contract I am on at the moment and if you keep bleeding me like this I will have to send CB and his buddies from the SAS round to *** (edited for bad choice of words in the circumstances) sort you out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 3 pages in and not one LOST / The Island reference yet. You guys are slipping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I thought you were lost Mission - not been around much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 3 pages in and not one LOST / The Island reference yet. You guys are slipping... Because real life can never be as soporific as that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 You mis-spelled shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Why can't we all just give a thought and a prayer for those poor souls lost and their families. Because we do not know their names? Your reply is both inane and puerile. It wasn't meant to be. I was being quite adult and serious, we do not know these people and neither do we have association with them. It is quite a tragedy - that is obvious & sad. Why does the media hype air crashes so? '1000's' of people die in tragic circumstances every day. I've just been reading about the world food crisis and beating myself up for buying broccoli that had been flown in from a nation where the majority of the population are starving, I'd rather ponder those kind of things than pray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Why does the media hype air crashes so? '1000's' of people die in tragic circumstances every day. I've just been reading about the world food crisis and beating myself up for buying broccoli that had been flown in from a nation where the majority of the population are starving, . Because most of us fly at some time and when doing so,most of us worry to some degree about dying in a plane crash Whereas almost non of us worry about dying through lack of food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Toad Of Toad Hall Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Yes people do worry about dying in plane crashes and there seems to have been a few of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.