Sebrof Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This may slow the crime rate down a bit... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8082532.stm If this sort of thing takes place then I dearly hope that this military leader is one of those be torched to death. Good example though. Do you think is a law to 'respect'? It is such a foolish argument that people make that other nations can set whatever laws they like and that is their prerogative and we should respect that. If you go to another country and the law there says you will be castrated for parking on a yellow line, then it would be foolish to park on a yellow line, n'est-ce pas? Whether or not you think it is a good or bad law is immaterial. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The husband is clearly exceptionally weak and should not be allowed custody of the children. Someday Dubai may join the civilised world - but it won't be anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Boats leave Dubai every morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 If you go to another country and the law there says you will be castrated for parking on a yellow line, then it would be foolish to park on a yellow line, n'est-ce pas? Whether or not you think it is a good or bad law is immaterial. Ok, respect is a word to be avoided. It is too ambiguous. It doesn't take much of a thinker to realise that avoiding breaking the law in any country is wise in order to avoid the associated punishment. Yes, if she did not commit adultery then she would not have been sent to jail. But this is not the issue I am talking about. I am talking about the injustice of these laws where the state has a role in policing people's private lives. In matters not whether this is a foreign country or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotlima Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 My ramblings I am afraid I disagree with your outlook on this. This isn't the same as taking your shoes off when you enters someone's house, or taking your hat off in some temple, or as you say eating in the street during Ramadan. Of course, you want to conform to the local customs so that you avoid offending people. But this is a different matter. This is a law enforced by the state to enforce behaviour in areas where the state has no business. Respect, in the limited sense of making sure you recognise and abide by the laws makes sense so you don't get punished. But such laws do not deserve respect in the wider sense of seeing them as an acceptable facet of another culture. They need criticising and challenging. Although I can understand where you are coming from LDV, what you seem to have missed is that most of these countries do not live in a democracy. If you went waltzing round dressed in hot pants and a bikini top in the UK, most people wouldn't even notice. You do that in a country whose ruling body follows Sharia law and you are going to be knee deep in shit. The state *does* have a say with regards to the behaviour of the general populous of these countries, and admittedly not all, but most seem to be happy to adhere to it. It would be very arrogant to try and impose Western democracy upon these governments. Why would you want to challenge their laws when, to be quite honest, it is none of our goddamn business. I think we should just butt out of their legal affairs. Adultery, drug smuggling, whatever - those that do these things must know that the rules of their host country differ from our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 [Now that is racist.] [Far from it, but you could do with explaining how it is.] No I couldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This may slow the crime rate down a bit... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8082532.stm If this sort of thing takes place then I dearly hope that this military leader is one of those be torched to death. Good example though. Do you think is a law to 'respect'? It is such a foolish argument that people make that other nations can set whatever laws they like and that is their prerogative and we should respect that. Am I to assume that you do respect the law that stopped her being executed because she is pregnant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Although I can understand where you are coming from LDV, what you seem to have missed is that most of these countries do not live in a democracy. If you went waltzing round dressed in hot pants and a bikini top in the UK, most people wouldn't even notice. You do that in a country whose ruling body follows Sharia law and you are going to be knee deep in shit. The state *does* have a say with regards to the behaviour of the general populous of these countries, and admittedly not all, but most seem to be happy to adhere to it. It would be very arrogant to try and impose Western democracy upon these governments. Why would you want to challenge their laws when, to be quite honest, it is none of our goddamn business. I think we should just butt out of their legal affairs. Adultery, drug smuggling, whatever - those that do these things must know that the rules of their host country differ from our own. Sorry, but I don't see the relevance of what you are trying to point out about these state not being liberal democracies. You are quite right that by not following the oppressive practise of covering yourself up you would get in trouble. I am not talking about imposing a liberal democratic system (such as parliamentary government) in these countries, if that is what you mean. I am just pointing out that their laws that laws such as this restrict the 'freedoms' of the people who live there in allowing the state to control people's relationships. But it is just as much our business as it is theirs. Simply because a different governments rules over a different people and they are thus subject to a different set of laws it does not mean that that government IS them or is the same as those people. Those people are just like us but have to suffer a different form of government. I think 'butting out of their legal affairs' is very parochial or possibly an attitude that comes from your thoughts of other people being clouded by nationalism. Look at what goes on in many other nations with the criminalisation of homosexuality for example. Although such attitudes may conform to the unenlightened attitudes of the populace because of religious brainwashing opposition has to be made to these laws and the treatment of people. It doesn't matter where those people live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 No I couldn't So you don't know why you think it is racist then? Am I to assume that you do respect the law that stopped her being executed because she is pregnant? Who is pregnant? Are you referring to the woman in Laos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotlima Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 LDV, I can see we are never going to agree on this one, but there are a couple of things that you mentioned that I would like to explore further with you. 1 - I didn't mention liberal democracies. And yes, I know the difference between a democracy and a liberal democracy. 2 - Why do you feel that covering yourself up is oppressive? That is merely you imposing your standards on a different culture. 3 - To put it bluntly, your pseudo anarchistic attitude is so fucking blinkered it is unreal. Just because the entirety of the world's population doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them wrong and you right. 4 - So you feel that my attitude is parochial. That is fine by me. What do you want to see? Globalism? 5 - Why do you feel that the populace in many countries are brainwashed? Just because somebody has faith in whichever god they chose doesn't mean that they aren't free thinkers. 6 - I never brought homosexuality into this, you did. I was merely stating that if British citizens break the law of their host country by drug smuggling or committing adultery then there is a price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 1 - I didn't mention liberal democracies. And yes, I know the difference between a democracy and a liberal democracy. Then when you talk of introducing democracy, what do you mean? Are you in fact referring to liberal attitudes? 2 - Why do you feel that covering yourself up is oppressive? That is merely you imposing your standards on a different culture. Because the wearing is niqab and burkhas, etc. comes firstly from the Muslim belief that people should dress modestly. Which is in itself a somewhat oppressive code of behaviour. But it is women who are required to cover up far more. And this (I believe) stems from the belief that the awrah should not be exposed. Yet for women this area is far more extensive than that of a man. As well as that in many cultures it is for the husband to only see his wife and not other men. This is an aspect of the oppression of women in Muslim societies. It is the men who have determined how women should dress. Now of course women choose to wear these garments and agree with the arguments behind why they are worn. But of course these people are brought up to accept this line of thinking. It fits in with a male dominated culture. In any case, dare they challenge this thinking? 3 - To put it bluntly, your pseudo anarchistic attitude is so fucking blinkered it is unreal. Just because the entirety of the world's population doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them wrong and you right. I believe that freedoms should be maximised, as the freer one is the more control they have over their lives. I think people should be have freedom over relationships and sex lives where there is no harm in them. I see this as a basic need. People should have this control and not have interference in this domain. You disagree, but you seem to argue on the standpoint that what comprises other people's culture and laws is right for them and should be left alone. You haven't really explained why. Is it because you think that liberty and freedom are concepts that cannot and should not be applied to people of other cultures? Or is it simply because these people live in another nation? 4 - So you feel that my attitude is parochial. That is fine by me. What do you want to see? Globalism? I would like to see a world without nation states and borders if that is what you mean by globalism. In every other aspect it seems that globalisation has brought freedom of movement except in respect of people. 5 - Why do you feel that the populace in many countries are brainwashed? Just because somebody has faith in whichever god they chose doesn't mean that they aren't free thinkers. I think the vast majority of religious people are brainwashed and indoctrinated. What sort of a nutcase would grow up in a world of science and with no religious teaching to then believe that some God exists who must be obeyed and have a set of rules to follow. 6 - I never brought homosexuality into this, you did. I was merely stating that if British citizens break the law of their host country by drug smuggling or committing adultery then there is a price to pay. I brought the example of homosexuality to show how another culture believes that it is wrong and punishes it very severely. In the same way as this instance of adultery, it is an example of the state punishing people where the state should have no power. And it also serves as an example to show that other cultures way of thinking and living are not always right and need criticising. If you break the law in another country and you get punished then...that's that. Nobody is arguing against that. I don't know why everyone keeps bringing this up. The law, however, can still be unjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Husband's a spiteful vindictive control freak. Can't blame her for wanting to get laid by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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