gazza Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I don't think health and safety has a particularly big job to do concerning the actual race, but the fact that traffic control during this special event is clearly, clearly inadequate to ensure the safety of members of the public driving on public roads is totally unacceptable. I am reasonably uninterested in health and safety issues about closed roads, but I cannot accept that the course is not subject to more effective traffic calming measures etc when racing isn't occuring and the roads are open. It is wrong that year after year our roads kill people during this period - it shows a complete lack of responsibility from the DOT - they should put in special calming methods to stop reckless people using public roads as a race track. Bollards, humps etc should be temporarily put down to be removed during racing and once the exitement is over. It will save lives and make the Island safer for all road users. I am totally uninterested in thrill seekers putting my and other road users' lives at risk. china hand while i read a lot of your posts, and thought u normaly talk a fair and quite gd posts, this one is utter shit, temp bollards and speed bumps, id like to see the the happy wagon drivers going over them for 2 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 But the whole attraction for a large proportion of visitors is surely the opportunity to drive fast on unrestricted roads. Take that away, and I suspect you will save a few people but kill the TT. S So the TT is more important saving a few lives. That attituded in a nutshell is why I have a fundamental problem with the TT. It is not that there are fatalities or accidents with those involved being left debilitated for life but the attitude that a certain number is deemed acceptable. Nobody ever seems to say what number that number is though. In my view no number should be accetable and if the attitude after every fatal accident was that is unacceptable and what can we do to prevent a repeat I would have fewer concerns about the TT than I do now when it seems that a few deaths is seen and accepted as a price worth paying for the TT so lets just shrug our shoulders, accept it and count the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Totally agree with you Lost Login. Gazza, I'm no expert but I think experts could design chicanes and bollards which wouldn't inconvenience large road users so greatly, but would break up the racing line etc. My main point is that I definitely think it is worth the effort, the continuing toll - more often than not on public open roads - is not acceptable, but our government seems to have the attitude Lost Login alludes to - a few deaths are ok as long as the tourist trade keeps on going. That attitude is frankly immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Totally agree with you Lost Login. Gazza, I'm no expert but I think experts could design chicanes and bollards which wouldn't inconvenience large road users so greatly, but would break up the racing line etc. My main point is that I definitely think it is worth the effort, the continuing toll - more often than not on public open roads - is not acceptable, but our government seems to have the attitude Lost Login alludes to - a few deaths are ok as long as the tourist trade keeps on going. That attitude is frankly immoral. i think it would cause more deaths, think about it, u have traffic calming mesures in a spot that reduces the traffic flow down to say 20 mph, u will have a back log of traffic, now the bullet men will be hitting this tail back at speed so could cause a nice pile up there, or after the bullet men have got past it, thay will open it up even more because thay have been sat at 20mph for so long, i think with the amount of road miles here, the amount of traffic on them for 2 weeks a year, i would hazzad a guess that thay stack up as not that many deaths per mile per person on a uk avarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Crabster Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 In Cumbria we loose a biker every couple of days. At Tebay a chicane was built for some political motive. After a fortnight a biker had died crashing into it in the dark. No apologies from Cumbria County Council, they just dug it up. Thick as pigshit do-gooders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It is wrong that year after year our roads kill people during this period - it shows a complete lack of responsibility from the DOT - they should put in special calming methods to stop reckless people using public roads as a race track. Disagree. The roads don't kill anyone. It's the people (visitors AND locals it seems) riding like lunatics escaping the asylum that kill and maim themselves and others. A hundred covert bike cops next year and the threat of machine confiscation if found guilty of drunken, dangerous or reckless driving/riding is the way to reduce the accident rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 and I suspect you will save a few people but kill the TT. S as opposed to save the TT but kill a few people?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Totally agree with you Lost Login. Gazza, I'm no expert but I think experts could design chicanes and bollards which wouldn't inconvenience large road users so greatly, but would break up the racing line etc. My main point is that I definitely think it is worth the effort, the continuing toll - more often than not on public open roads - is not acceptable, but our government seems to have the attitude Lost Login alludes to - a few deaths are ok as long as the tourist trade keeps on going. That attitude is frankly immoral. Get real, although these would work I do not think for one minute people will put up with the extra 2 or 3 hours of road closures each day before and after races whilst the take these up and reinstate them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 A hundred covert bike cops next year and the threat of machine confiscation if found guilty of drunken, dangerous or reckless driving/riding is the way to reduce the accident rate. I agree but it will not happen as there would be huge complaints that this was a heavy handed attitude and would "kill" the TT. In my opinion there appears to be an attitude that there is a desire for safety and to stop dangerous or reckless driving/riding but only provided it does not affect the TT. The one way section on the mountain road to me is an ideal example as if it was one way from Douglas to Ramsey it would stop an awful lot of idiots trying to go round the course on open roads thinking they were racers. That will never happen though as right to have a blast around the course is the priority. Defining reckless might also be a problem as I read recently the inquest report into death of the man from Ramsey. Condonlonces to the family and friends. As reported the accident was a consequence of the bilke losing grip on a corner due to its high speed. Moyles in the reports specifically said that the deceased was not reckless but I am not sure that if in a generic and sanitised way you set out a similar scenario and asked the general public everybody would agree however it is an irrelevent issue now as the poor guy paid the ultimate price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 and I suspect you will save a few people but kill the TT. S as opposed to save the TT but kill a few people?? I'm not condoning it; I'm just pointing out that for many visitors, the prospect of being able to drive fast on roads without speed limits is a major part of their reason for coming here. If you remove or seriously reduce that prospect, I think it is quite possible that many bikers would not come. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 i think with the amount of road miles here, the amount of traffic on them for 2 weeks a year, i would hazzad a guess that thay stack up as not that many deaths per mile per person on a uk avarage we've been there in many previous discussions - our forum 'bobby' once stated that Manx road fatalities were akin to Portugal (low down on European statistics) and probably at least twice the UK average - per captia it worked out nearer 3x the UK average death rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 we've been there in many previous discussions - our forum 'bobby' once stated that Manx road fatalities were akin to Portugal (low down on European statistics) and probably at least twice the UK average - per captia it worked out nearer 3x the UK average death rate. Comparing with the whole UK where most driving is on motorways and dual carriage ways is not a fare comparison. If you were to compare it with just Cornwall, I think you will find we come out rather well. Cornwall does have a couple of dual carriage ways, but no motorways. They also have a lot of winding roads and a fair number of tourists. The fatality rate is huge, especially in the summer. Stu Peters is right on this one. But you don't need 100 motorcycle cops, you just need a few more speed traps, and the power to stop and search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Seems about right with regard to the UK as they have about 60 road deaths per year per million population. On the same basis that would result in 5 or 6 per year in the IoM and I would agree we are probably about 2 or 3 times that. It does not take account of the fact though that the average mileage in the UK is much higher and I think that per mile driven the UK has the lowest number of fatalities of any major country. Motor cycle fatalities make up about about 20% of the UK figure. we've been there in many previous discussions - our forum 'bobby' once stated that Manx road fatalities were akin to Portugal (low down on European statistics) and probably at least twice the UK average - per captia it worked out nearer 3x the UK average death rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibaba Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Stu Peters is right on this one. But you don't need 100 motorcycle cops, you just need a few more speed traps, and the power to stop and search. What, apart from annoy people, would the stop and search thing do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 and I suspect you will save a few people but kill the TT. S as opposed to save the TT but kill a few people?? I'm not condoning it; I'm just pointing out that for many visitors, the prospect of being able to drive fast on roads without speed limits is a major part of their reason for coming here. If you remove or seriously reduce that prospect, I think it is quite possible that many bikers would not come. S i agree with you, i just couldn't resist the play on words. reminded me of 'who called the singer a twat'? retorted by 'who called the twat a singer'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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