Ukip And The Bnp

[La_Dolce_Vita]

That's very harsh and premature. That might be something worthwhile if someone like that got into power and began a whole set of very oppressive measures against people.

By which time it will be too late.

 

Yeah you're quite right. But it'll never come to the stage of them getting in power. The electorate (and what few peopl vote) are overall too liberal to put them in government. Though people would have to act if by some odd chance that they ever did.

[P.K.]

The present government does, at least, have some experience and to abandon it in the immediate future would be a disaster of major proportions.

I find the argument you are making here - and which P.K. also regularly makes - that incumbency is a reason to keep a government - a deeply conservative and flawed argument. I would argue that alot of the problems the government faces are down to incumbency - running out of ideas, an attitude that it is destined to rule, arrogance towards the electorate.

 

You can run down the opposition as much as you like, but as well as the battle of ideas a government has to stand by its record and acts; and for this government that record is poor. I find the idea that because they have presided over a mess for a long time we should continue to allow them to try to sort out the mess a very odd idea, and suspect its simply partisanship desperately looking for an excuse.

Dear me Mr Chinahand, incumbency is NOT the reason, experience is.

 

Firstly you seem to have completely ignored the simple fact that in the UK we don't vote governments IN TO power, we vote governments OUT OF power. How remiss of you as it's an important distinction i.e. folks don't actually look at how crap the alternatives actually are, they just want rid of the current with the usual glib bollocks "Well, they can't be any worse". Oh really? If you don't actually research how useless the alternatives are how do you know?

 

Secondly I don't think Brown has done too badly in the current financial crisis. Although unless you tried hard to find out you really wouldn't know. Which to my mind is the tail wagging the dog. When I posted recently "It Was The Torygraph Wot Won It" to me it is an uncomfortable truth. But then us wishy-washy pragmatic liberals always think that the great unwashed average UK voter has a very short-term memory and NO long-term memory at all! The populist press not only reflect this but actually promote it and we think this is VERY bad for our brand of democracy.

 

Take the collapse of our financial institutions. You read a useless excuse for a "newspaper" like The Daily Mail and you would think that Brown had managed to engineer the collapse of the US sub-prime mortgage market from his office in Downing Street i.e. complete and utter bollocks. And apparently he also brought France and Germany to their financial knees as well. Oh yes, of course he did. In actuality most of Europe thought Brown's actions when faced with the crisis were outstandingly astute, but then he is probably one of the longest serving Chancellors in the EEC. He also had an exceptional G20 summit in trying to get the various competitors pulling together for the common good. How much did Joe Public hear about that success? The square root of zilch.

 

Then there's the FSA. The populist bollocks press (and by default their readership) blame Brown for not controlling the excesses of our financial institutions rigidly enough. There's not only the plain and simple fact that they should be self-monitoring but also just how relevant is an FSA today? The global economy also includes finance. The UK's financial institutions went searching out business in other countries that have different regulations. They also got so complex that even those at the heart of them were struggling to understand the model they were operating in. What chance did ANY kind of FSA have in that climate? Did you answer "Fuck All"? Well done, that's the right answer.

 

The depth of the UK's recession may well be down to Brown though. He set up the BoE MPC along with it's SOP's. I'm pretty certain that he gave them too much independence. They didn't exactly fiddle while the Square Mile burned but despite those like Blanchflower telling it like it is the majority decided to do nothing. In that peculiar British style they thought inactivity was best and that they would muddle through somehow. Errr, yes...

 

Brown's administration looks jaded, no doubt at all. And the poisonous drip-drip-drip of the appallingly partisan Torygraph's expenses chalice has almost certainly dealt them a mortal blow. A "newspaper" like the Torygraph bringing down the current government by using it's own attempts to make ALL those in Westminster answerable for their greed - now THAT'S irony...

 

Of course, this is just my take on things garnered since the crisis hit. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if a Daily Wail reader had a completely different take on the issues. But then I can live with that...

[manxman2]

Actually it is quite worrying that protestors threw eggs at Mister Griffin.

 

Can no-one make molotov cocktails any more?

 

you get more bang for your buck with a handgrenade .

[P.K.]

Hmmm... interesting. I wonder what all the Brainless Brown-Bashers will make of this?

 

Will Hutton: "Your praise of Gordon Brown after the banks in October were recapitalised was front-page news. Are you still as well disposed?

 

Paul Krugman: " I think the UK economy looks the best in Europe at the moment. I have no position on all of the crazy stuff. But I think the policies are intelligent. The fact of the matter is that Britain did manage to stabilise the banking situation. I'm not ecstatic, but I'm not sure I know what I could have done better."

 

Sure you can pretty much find any opinion you like on t'interweb but only a complete and utter dick would think that there was a surfeit of winners of the Nobel Prize for Economics out there...

[Evil Goblin]

"Firstly you seem to have completely ignored the simple fact that in the UK we don't vote governments IN TO power, we vote governments OUT OF power. How remiss of you as it's an important distinction i.e. folks don't actually look at how crap the alternatives actually are, they just want rid of the current with the usual glib bollocks "Well, they can't be any worse". Oh really? If you don't actually research how useless the alternatives are how do you know?

 

Secondly I don't think Brown has done too badly in the current financial crisis. Although unless you tried hard to find out you really wouldn't know. Which to my mind is the tail wagging the dog. When I posted recently "It Was The Torygraph Wot Won It" to me it is an uncomfortable truth. But then us wishy-washy pragmatic liberals always think that the great unwashed average UK voter has a very short-term memory and NO long-term memory at all! The populist press not only reflect this but actually promote it and we think this is VERY bad for our brand of democracy."

 

The usual appalling arrogance from one of the so-called intellectuals of the Left! The people are a mass of ignorant sheep who need us, who know everything, to run their lives for them! Is it any wonder, PK, that come the revolution it will be people like you that are first against the wall?

 

And I don't suppose that Bottler had anything to do with the active encouragement of the debt bubble and associated asset inflation in the UK that has led to most of this misery? That it wasn't Bottler in his ten years at The Treasury that wrecked the public finances such that Britain is in no position to offer effective support to industry and commerce through the recession?

 

Face up to the facts, PK - your time has passed.

[pongo]

Britain is in no position to offer effective support to industry and commerce through the recession

 

From your political perspective, would you really expect or support UK govt support for UK industry and commerce ?

 

What I mean is - were you not previously talking about you admiration for the Conservative Govt of the early 1980s. That govt crashed the economy, initially, and provided no support for struggling business. It was retrospectively called "stripping out the dead wood" and many said it was a good thing. Some commentators said that from that hardship came future boom - others argued that many viable companies were allowed to fail.

[P.K.]

And I don't suppose that Bottler had anything to do with the active encouragement of the debt bubble and associated asset inflation in the UK that has led to most of this misery? That it wasn't Bottler in his ten years at The Treasury that wrecked the public finances such that Britain is in no position to offer effective support to industry and commerce through the recession?

So it wasn't low interest rates that caused ALL the Western financial houses to throw as much money as they could at any global business they could find then? Well I never. Just as well really because had the BoE MPC artificially increased UK interest rates to stem demand not only would UK PLC have become less competitive but with global banking cheaper dosh could have been found elsewhere making the whole exercise completely worthless.

 

The usual appalling arrogance from one of the so-called intellectuals of the Left! The people are a mass of ignorant sheep who need us, who know everything, to run their lives for them! Is it any wonder, PK, that come the revolution it will be people like you that are first against the wall?

 

Face up to the facts, PK - your time has passed.

Not very good at this are you, Paul Krugman a lefty - you've got to be having a laugh! And come any revolution I'll be the one giving the command "LOAD!"

 

The thing is that you have to look out for those who essentially can't look out for themselves. The weak, the poor, the disadvantaged and so forth. You know, the ones the likes of Thatcher completely ignored...

[Cambon]

The thing is that you have to look out for those who essentially can't look out for themselves. The weak, the poor, the disadvantaged and so forth. You know, the ones the likes of Thatcher completely ignored...

 

And the ones that labour have dumbed down over the last decade+ in an inadequate schooling system.

 

Face tha facts, P.K., Broon led the UK into this mess. Blair dived out at exactly the right time because he could see what was coming.

 

Your comments earlier about the UK voting governments out, not in really made me laugh.

[P.K.]

Your comments earlier about the UK voting governments out, not in really made me laugh.

Mr Cambon! Long time no mock - how the devil are you?

 

I see you made no comment whatsoever on Noble Prize-Winner Paul Krugman and just carried on beating your tired little drum. Why am I not surprised...

 

I'm glad the "Vote out, not in" comment made you laugh but alas I can't take the credit as that truism has been around as long as UK governments. It's a sad reflection on the UK system that we never have folks motivated by a party that's worth voting for so they can only ever vote against.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But then us wishy-washy pragmatic liberals always think that the great unwashed average UK voter has a very short-term memory and NO long-term memory at all! The populist press not only reflect this but actually promote it and we think this is VERY bad for our brand of democracy."

 

I don't agree with what you say here. Bad for our branch of democracy? But the brand of democracy in the UK is one that is based on the idea that voters think in the short-term. A very large proportion recognise that a government is doing badly and then think the other main party is their saviour or is better. If this did not happen there would be even more apathy in the system, to such an extent that parliamentary democracy would be unworkable.

 

The usual appalling arrogance from one of the so-called intellectuals of the Left! The people are a mass of ignorant sheep who need us, who know everything, to run their lives for them! Is it any wonder, PK, that come the revolution it will be people like you that are first against the wall?

 

Revolution and left-wingers? The Labour Party? Far from it. There is little to distinguish the Tories from the Labour Party and vice versa

[Cambon]

Mr Cambon! Long time no mock - how the devil are you?

 

I see you made no comment whatsoever on Noble Prize-Winner Paul Krugman and just carried on beating your tired little drum. Why am I not surprised...

 

Krugman is correct, there is little more anyone else could do. Had Europe followed suit it would be in a better situation now, rather than weakening against most major currencies as more bad debt is starting to raise it's head. It was to be expected and the pound/euro rate should never have got anywhere near par. However, Krugman's comments cannot escape the fact that it was Brown's low inflation policies during his time as chancellor, and his failure to control the banks when it was obvious what was going on, that caused the majority of the situation the UK is in now.

[Cambon]

Revolution and left-wingers? The Labour Party? Far from it. There is little to distinguish the Tories from the Labour Party and vice versa

 

I cannot be arsed to answer this load of cock.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Revolution and left-wingers? The Labour Party? Far from it. There is little to distinguish the Tories from the Labour Party and vice versa

 

I cannot be arsed to answer this load of cock.

 

Oh go on, it just be might be educational, though I doubt it.

[Cambon]

Revolution and left-wingers? The Labour Party? Far from it. There is little to distinguish the Tories from the Labour Party and vice versa

 

I cannot be arsed to answer this load of cock.

 

Oh go on, it just be might be educational, though I doubt it.

 

When Blair first came into power "New Labour" as they called themselves were in fact quite close to being conservative. However, They have moved slowly but surely further left as Blair's time moved on. Since Brown got in the leftward progression has accelerated at a massive pace, to the current point where the state now has much contol of the banking system, they have dumbed down the education system, installed big brother style surveylance, increased taxes on everyone expecially the poor, and basically screwed the economy with an unsustainable situation of low (manufactured) inflation. Brown now knows he is going and is clinging on for dear life, in the hopes that he can get his ID cards and DNA database, link the pound with the euro and then railroad us into the europe without a referendum. Hardly a conservative approach.

[pongo]

Brown ... hopes that he can ... link the pound with the euro and then railroad us into the europe without a referendum. Hardly a conservative approach.

 

All of the analysis and everything he has ever said has always pointed towards Mr Brown being essentially opposed to Britain joining the €. Which is also, incidentally, very much what old - Labour have mostly always also argued.

 

So where is the evidence that Mr Brown has now changed his mind about Britain joining the € ? Why do you say that ? Is it based on serious analysis ? The markets do not agree with you.