bellyup Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Triskelion Do you think that the IOM has a Future in view of the KSF situation? Do you think it could have been handled in a better way in which it would have seen as the Good Guys ? Yes these are the people who will stand by us in a crisis - we will put our money and our business there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarbunny Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Triskelion Do you think that the IOM has a Future in view of the KSF situation? Do you think it could have been handled in a better way in which it would have seen as the Good Guys ? Yes these are the people who will stand by us in a crisis - we will put our money and our business there? Yes to all three questions. Now some for you. Did you do research into what protection you would have if the bank you had your money in went bust? If so did you decide that the reward justified the risk? If not does this not make your claims of lack of "due diligence" on the part of the regulator a little hypocritical? I don’t not think in any way you are responsible for the loss of your money, in the same way the Manx public are responsible I do whole heartedly fell that you are responsible for being happy with the legislation that is in place to protect your money, if you were happy with the legislation that got you higher returns then you must be happy with the legislation that says you get x% up to x thousand pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Triskelion Do you think that the IOM has a Future in view of the KSF situation? Do you think it could have been handled in a better way in which it would have seen as the Good Guys ? Yes these are the people who will stand by us in a crisis - we will put our money and our business there? Yes to all three questions. Now some for you. Did you do research into what protection you would have if the bank you had your money in went bust? If so did you decide that the reward justified the risk? If not does this not make your claims of lack of "due diligence" on the part of the regulator a little hypocritical? I don’t not think in any way you are responsible for the loss of your money, in the same way the Manx public are responsible I do whole heartedly fell that you are responsible for being happy with the legislation that is in place to protect your money, if you were happy with the legislation that got you higher returns then you must be happy with the legislation that says you get x% up to x thousand pounds. First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? Did everyone in Northern Rock/ Bradford and Bingley/ RBS do due dilligence on their bank? The ordinary saver who has saved for years with one bank does not scour the financial papers to see the credentials of their bank That is why we have regulators otherwise why have them? I am an ordinary person who saved over the years a little at a time. No one pays me 250k p a to be a regulator By giving a bank a LICENCE the FSC and therefore the IOM says that it is fit to trade. Otherwise every Tom Dick and Harry could open a bank. I personally went into this several times with Mr Aiden Doherty the MD of KSFIOM after the Derbyshire was taken over. He assured me that the bank was FULLY guaranteed by the PARENTAL GUARANTEE that had been lodged with the FSC of the IOM. He told me the bank had 300+ days liquidity , no exposure to toxic debt and blue chip loans to high worth individuals. In fact some of this is true. There is I understand no exposure to toxic debt , the loan book is of very high quality and prior to the money being frozen int eh Uk the bank was extremely solvent. Of course the parental guarantee has sunk like the Titanic hitting the Iceberg make that Iceland. I have to say that since the catastrophe not I or anyone else has had one word of apology or sympathy from Mr Doherty or any of the Directors of the bank ( whose wages - at least those of Mr Doherty + 25 of the bank staff - we the depositors now find ourselves paying ) These 25 are all Manx residents so they at least do not decry us because they know the truth of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarbunny Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yes to all three questions. Now some for you. Did you do research into what protection you would have if the bank you had your money in went bust? If so did you decide that the reward justified the risk? If not does this not make your claims of lack of "due diligence" on the part of the regulator a little hypocritical? I don’t not think in any way you are responsible for the loss of your money, in the same way the Manx public are responsible I do whole heartedly fell that you are responsible for being happy with the legislation that is in place to protect your money, if you were happy with the legislation that got you higher returns then you must be happy with the legislation that says you get x% up to x thousand pounds. First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? In the current economy quite a few, if I had life savings in an instant access account when Northern Rock went bust I would have been checking what cover my money had JUST IN CASE. Did everyone in Northern Rock/ Bradford and Bingley/ RBS do due diligence on their bank? Probably not, but are they all on public forums decrying the regulators lack of "due diligence" when they them selves didn't with their own life savings. The ordinary saver who has saved for years with one bank does not scour the financial papers to see the credentials of their bank That’s not what I asked, I asked if you bothered to find out what protection your life savings would have from the jurisdiction your money was held in the event the bank collapsed, this is the minimum "due diligence" I would expect, especially given some of the biggest banks in the world were going under. That is why we have regulators otherwise why have them? To insure business practices are carried out in accordance with the regulations, which in this case they seem to have been. I personally went into this several times with Mr Aiden Doherty the MD of KSFIOM after the Derbyshire was taken over. He assured me that the bank was FULLY guaranteed by the PARENTAL GUARANTEE that had been lodged with the FSC of the IOM. He told me the bank had 300+ days liquidity , no exposure to toxic debt and blue chip loans to high worth individuals. Really? The MD of a bank telling you everything is fine? I would never have thought it. As I have said before a parental guarantee is all well and good, however if the parent bank goes under then you are left with the guarantee of the local banking jurisdiction, some thing you should have researched and been happy with. However if you happily believed the MD of the bank with no question then I have a nice share in the Eiffel Tower that I'm looking to sell. I have to say that since the catastrophe not I or anyone else has had one word of apology or sympathy from Mr Doherty or any of the Directors of the bank You mean that the MD hasn’t apologised for the collapse of a bank caused mainly by the massive downturn in the economy, external factors and nothing of his doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/R4jw...-h/failures.bmp One or more, often many more, failed every year since 1930, except for two. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Did everyone in Northern Rock/ Bradford and Bingley/ RBS do due dilligence on their bank? The wise did, and the foolish didn't. Instead, they go round the internet bleating incorrectly that they were "prudent". The ordinary saver who has saved for years with one bank does not scour the financial papers to see the credentials of their bank The wise don't have all their money with one bank. And they keep tabs on their investments. That is why we have regulators otherwise why have them? To keep out the crooked. We haven't found a way to keep out the incompetent. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? U.S. bank failures so far in 2009. All figures in US$millions BANK, STATE, ASSETS, DEPOSITS, FDIC CLOSING COST, DATE Nat'l Bank of Comm. Ill. 430.9 402.1 97.1 Jan 16 Bank of Clark County Wash. 446.5 366.5 145.0* Jan 16 1st Centennial Bank Cal. 803.3 676.9 227.0 Jan 23 MagnetBank Utah 292.9 282.8 119.4 Jan 30 Suburban Federal Md. 360.0 302.0 126.0 Jan 30 Ocala Nat'l Bank Fla 223.5 205.2 99.6 Jan 30 FirstBank Financial Ga. 337.0 279.0 111.0 Feb 6 Alliance Bank Cal. 1,140.0 951.0 206.0 Feb 6 County Bank Cal. 1,700.0 1,300.0 135.0 Feb 6 Sherman County Bank Neb. 129.8 85.1 28.0 Feb 13 Riverside Bank Fla. 539.0 424.0 201.5 Feb 13 Corn Belt Bank Ill. 271.8 234.4 100.0 Feb 13 Pinnacle Bank Ore. 73.0 64.0 12.1 Feb 13 Silver Falls Bank Ore. 131.4 116.3 50.0 Feb 20 Security Savings Bank Nev. 238.3 175.2 59.1 Feb 27 Heritage Community Bnk Ill. 232.9 218.6 41.6 Feb 27 Freedom Bank Ga. 173.0 161.0 36.2 Mar 6 FirstCity Bank Ga. 297.0 278.0 100.0 Mar 20 TeamBank N.A. Kan. 669.8 492.8 98.0 Mar 20 Colorado Natl Bank Colo. 123.5 82.7 9.0 Mar 20 Omni National Bank Ga. 956.0 796.8 290.0 Mar 27 Cape Fear Bank N.C. 492.0 403.0 131.0 Apr 10 New Frontier Bank Col. 2,000.0 1,500.0 670.0 Apr 10 Great Basin Bank Nev. 270.9 221.4 42.0 Apr 17 American Sterling Mo. 181.0 171.9 42.0 Apr 17 American Southern Bank Ga. 112.3 104.3 41.9 Apr 24 Michigan Heritage Bank Mich. 184.6 151.7 71.3 Apr 24 1st Bank Beverly Hills Cal. 1,500.0 1,000.0 394.0 Apr 24 First Bank of Idaho Idaho 488.9 374.0 191.2 Apr 24 Silverton Bank Ga. 4,100.0 3,300.0 1,300.0 May 1 Citizens Comm'ty Bank N.J. 45.1 43.7 11.5 May 1 America West Bank Utah 299.4 284.1 119.4 May 1 Westsound Bank Wash. 334.6 304.5 108.0 May 8 BankUnited Fla. 12,800.0 8,600.0 4,900.0 May 21 Strategic Capital Bank Ill. 573.0 471.0 173.0 May 22 Citizens National Bank Ill. 437.0 400.0 106.0 May 22 Bank of Lincolnwood Ill. 214.0 202.0 83.0 Jun 5 Southern Community Ga. 377.0 307.0 114.0 Jun 19 Cooperative Bank N.C. 970.0 774.0 217.0 Jun 19 First Nat'l of Anthony Kan. 156.9 142.5 32.3 Jun 19 Community Bank W. Ga. Ga. 199.4 182.5 85.0 Jun 26 Neighborhood Bank Ga. 221.6 191.3 66.7 Jun 26 Horizon Bank Minn. 87.6 69.4 33.5 Jun 26 MetroPacific Bank Cal. 80.0 73.0 29.0 Jun 26 Mirae Bank Cal. 456.0 362.0 50.0 Jun 26 Fortunately bank failures are very rare, and depositors need not trouble their pretty little heads about the possibility. There have of course been quite a number of UK and Manx bank failures over the years, and I am trying to find a definitive list. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? In the UK, in the past year or two: Northern Rock B&B RBS HBOS KSFUK In addition, a number of building societies were rescued by Nationwide. Technically, except for KSFUK, they didn't GO bust, but only because the government rescued them, or arranged for them to be rescued. Without government intervention, ALL of them would have gone down, and they would probably have taken Barclays and Lloyds with them. Perhaps only HSBC and Nationwide (a building society offering banking services) would have remained. In the UK, we have allowed our banks to become too big to fail, and I am not convinced that is good. On the other hand, after 1929 the US passed laws preventing banks from operating outside their own state, and although these have been partially repealed, the result is that the US has a great many banks which are too small to survive a downturn. I'd like to see about 20 high-street banks in the UK. The present arrangement is just a cosy cartel. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I was musing over career possibilities for those thrown out of work by the present difficulties, and thought about bank directors. No formal qualifications required, it seems. Just outstanding personal qualities, chiefly incompetence, greed, and dishonesty. Could be just the job for some people. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I am sure Sebrof you must be extremely weathy as you are so clever and know it all. No, but I'm not a complete flipping idiot. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yes to all three questions. Now some for you. Did you do research into what protection you would have if the bank you had your money in went bust? If so did you decide that the reward justified the risk? If not does this not make your claims of lack of "due diligence" on the part of the regulator a little hypocritical? I don’t not think in any way you are responsible for the loss of your money, in the same way the Manx public are responsible I do whole heartedly fell that you are responsible for being happy with the legislation that is in place to protect your money, if you were happy with the legislation that got you higher returns then you must be happy with the legislation that says you get x% up to x thousand pounds. First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? In the current economy quite a few, if I had life savings in an instant access account when Northern Rock went bust I would have been checking what cover my money had JUST IN CASE. Did everyone in Northern Rock/ Bradford and Bingley/ RBS do due diligence on their bank? Probably not, but are they all on public forums decrying the regulators lack of "due diligence" when they them selves didn't with their own life savings. The ordinary saver who has saved for years with one bank does not scour the financial papers to see the credentials of their bank That’s not what I asked, I asked if you bothered to find out what protection your life savings would have from the jurisdiction your money was held in the event the bank collapsed, this is the minimum "due diligence" I would expect, especially given some of the biggest banks in the world were going under. That is why we have regulators otherwise why have them? To insure business practices are carried out in accordance with the regulations, which in this case they seem to have been. I personally went into this several times with Mr Aiden Doherty the MD of KSFIOM after the Derbyshire was taken over. He assured me that the bank was FULLY guaranteed by the PARENTAL GUARANTEE that had been lodged with the FSC of the IOM. He told me the bank had 300+ days liquidity , no exposure to toxic debt and blue chip loans to high worth individuals. Really? The MD of a bank telling you everything is fine? I would never have thought it. As I have said before a parental guarantee is all well and good, however if the parent bank goes under then you are left with the guarantee of the local banking jurisdiction, some thing you should have researched and been happy with. However if you happily believed the MD of the bank with no question then I have a nice share in the Eiffel Tower that I'm looking to sell. I have to say that since the catastrophe not I or anyone else has had one word of apology or sympathy from Mr Doherty or any of the Directors of the bank You mean that the MD hasn’t apologised for the collapse of a bank caused mainly by the massive downturn in the economy, external factors and nothing of his doing. No apologizing for telling depositors lies. That the bank had a 100% garentee form the parent bank. That there was no need to panic ( he knew there was a run on the bank) For NOT actioning peoples requests - an illegal action once a customer has given instructions the bank must carry them out. In the days before the collapse of the bank many people gave correct instructions to transfer funds and this was not actioned. Common decency would have required some sort of COMMUNICATION Even SORRY FOLKS ITS WASNT MY FAULT but nothing. I am sure Sebrof you must be extremely wealthy as you are so clever and knowledgeable and also have the gift of hindsight. I have to pass on the Effiel Tower Im afraid. That s goes for any property you might have in Spain too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Did everyone in Northern Rock/ Bradford and Bingley/ RBS do due dilligence on their bank? The wise did, and the foolish didn't. Instead, they go round the internet bleating incorrectly that they were "prudent". Wise or foolish the Northern Rock depositors were supported by the BRITISH GOVERNMENT Unlike the MANX government who has failed to support its depositors even thought it owes its lilivlihood to banking and finance. and promotes itself as a safe and secure place to deposit savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 First I would ask you how many BANKS go BUST? Fortunately bank failures are very rare, and depositors need not trouble their pretty little heads about the possibility. There have of course been quite a number of UK and Manx bank failures over the years, and I am trying to find a definitive list. S Yes do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebrof Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 No apologizing for telling depositors lies. What lies? That the bank had a 100% garentee form the parent bank. That was true. That there was no need to panic ( he knew there was a run on the bank) That was true, as far as he knew. If the parent hadn't collapsed, the funds would have been available. For NOT actioning peoples requests - an illegal action once a customer has given instructions the bank must carry them out.In the days before the collapse of the bank many people gave correct instructions to transfer funds and this was not actioned. I imagine the sheer volume meant they couldn't be actioned on the day, and then the parent collapsed. Common decency would have required some sort of COMMUNICATION And spend more depositors' money on empty words? S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Common decency would have required some sort of COMMUNICATION And spend more depositors' money on empty words? S True emails are so expensive but then the depositors are paying him 11k a month so hes hardly strapped for cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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