Lee54 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 We have only ourselves to blaim, we voted the MHKs in, and now have to play by thier rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 1. Chief Minister - elected on a whole Island basis. 2. Legco - 9 or so members from which the Chief Minister selects his cabinet. These are again elected on an all-Island election. 3. Keys - 24 members elected on the current constituency basis. They would concentrate on constituency work (I'd probably cut back on local government at the same time) and have the role of scrutinising the policies proposed by the executive. This way everybody is elected; everybody is accountable; the Chief Minister governs by persuasion rather than patronage. Sensible suggestions. Like I said earlier though, it's a beauty contest. Look at who got the most votes last election as a rough guide and wonder if they're Chief Minister material. It's a revolutionary way of doing things though, rather than the evolutionary suggestions so far. I can see the point of MLC's being elected as they are presently - sure, it's a grace and favour thing, but would the alternative be any better? "Mr Controversiall" sticking up for the establishment again. Yawn. I'm sticking up for nothing, you village idiot - I'm just saying that I can see the argument for the present system as explained by MLC's only this week. Being controversial doesn't mean automatically slagging off EVERYTHING the establishment says - we've already got Peter Karran for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triskelion Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 The problem with any constitutional debate is that its full of grand ideas about structure and mechanisms and political participation; often perhaps lacking in pragmatism or a problem-solving approach. We've all been there. "Let's change everything" is rarely the best approach, and much like Government pensions, I don't think its appropriate in this situation. One point I think almost all of us can agree on is that the Bishop should no longer sit by right in either LegCo or Tynwald. Whilst yes it is a bit nostalgic that he's the last survivor of those who original sat a step down from the King on the hill, this kind of thing really doesn't wash these days. Does it make much of a difference? Probably not, but its an easy victory really in moving reform forward. Ultimately, I have no confidence that any kind of constitutional reform is going to ensure strong (but accountable) Government; competant and experienced (and popular) legislative members; and high quality, effective (and low cost) public services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake Up Call Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 LegCo is unbalanced. It means that the regional political bias is shifted towards Douglas. For example, there are no MLCs from the South - surely this could contribute to the fact that the lower end of the Island 'misses out'? Change the rules and if we really do need them, make it a public vote at the same time as the next election. (At the same time have a referendum on a few other things like speed limits, TT, E.U., DoLGE reform, IOM International Football Team, cheaper ale, etc etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaipyr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 LegCo is unbalanced.It means that the regional political bias is shifted towards Douglas. For example, there are no MLCs from the South - surely this could contribute to the fact that the lower end of the Island 'misses out'? Change the rules and if we really do need them, make it a public vote at the same time as the next election. (At the same time have a referendum on a few other things like speed limits, TT, E.U., DoLGE reform, IOM International Football Team, cheaper ale, etc etc) There was an Irish fella who stood in Ramsey - must be about 8 - 10 years ago, who believed in electronic voting on all important issues. I went to one of his meetings and couldn't make my mind up whether he was a revolutionary or a crackpot - liked him though. Can anyone remember his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Joe Rooney His current site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It would be like letting toddlers eat sweets until they are sick and all their teeth fall out. Toddler's teeth all fall out anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 LegCo is unbalanced.It means that the regional political bias is shifted towards Douglas. For example, there are no MLCs from the South - surely this could contribute to the fact that the lower end of the Island 'misses out'? Eddie Lowey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 And of course there was Pam Crowe. Although we don't hear much about Pam these days. So, democracy in action indeed. One of Pam's latter moves was to vote in the Legislative Council against the House of Keys who had just voted for a Tynwald Question Time to continue but the motion was defeated. This got her off the hook in answering awkward questions that were coming up regarding Post Office employees (quite a few were in the Public Gallery awaiting some answers). The move probably contributed very much to her not being re-elected. The point being, if you think there has been something decided which you are not happy with, let your Member of the House of Keys know and tell them that you do not want a member of the Legislative Council to be re-elected. If your MHK goes against your wishes then kick him/her out at the next general election. That is, if they haven't by that time found a safe haven for half a decade in the Legislative Council. Democracy in Action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It's a revolutionary way of doing things though, rather than the evolutionary suggestions so far. Is it? It is still constitutional reform. Though I have no idea what evolutionary means in practise, government doesn't evolve. The point being, if you think there has been something decided which you are not happy with, let your Member of the House of Keys know and tell them that you do not want a member of the Legislative Council to be re-elected. If your MHK goes against your wishes then kick him/her out at the next general election. That is, if they haven't by that time found a safe haven for half a decade in the Legislative Council. Democracy in Action Right, so if I disagree with the fact that I cannot choose who make decisions about me and I tell an MHK, if he does nothing about this I can personally remove him from government? Sounds wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agitator Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 interesting, having been back on the Island only a few weeks, i tuned in to Tynwald last week for the first time in ages. I must say that 'some' of the comments from Legislative Council Members were far more sensible than most of the utter dribble that was being spouted my elected representitive and others in the Keys who were obvioulsy playing to the radio listeners! What I heard of Callister Turner Lowie and Butt, i think i'd rather they were the ones that stayed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Callister Turner Lowie and Butt Sounds like the worst law firm you'll ever engage !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Callister impresses me whenever I've heard Tynwald, doesn't say a lot, but it always right to the point. Can probably cause more discomfort to a minister with ten words than Henderson can cause ten thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaipyr Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Joe Rooney His current site. Many thanks Declan - that's the man! There were only about half a dozen of us at his meeting but I was fascinated by his views - hadn't heard the like before on the IOM! Still can't make my mind up though whether he was way ahead of his time or a bit of a loony! I liked him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I see what you mean - i can't make up my mind whether he is mad or not. His website suggests the former. It's like a bad trip on mushrooms, with a deranged jumble of weird gifs and psychadelic lettering. What he's advocating though seems to be a sort of anarchist plebiscitary democracy. The problem with referendums though is that the public are not always best informed to make important decisions, and their opinions can be swayed by propaganda or a persuasive character. Hitler made use of them to give his decisions some kind of legitimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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