asitis Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Wouldn't electing a Chief Minister make him too Presidential? Are we really going to benefit from one person deciding policy? What we will end up with is a tedious and inefficient system where the rest of the legislature is trivialised as all focus is on whether you are for or against whoever is Chief Minister. If you have a primary legislative body, like the LegCo could be, or the Senate in the US is supposed to be, won't you have a more open and accountable system, even simply on the basis that not all accountability will be placed in the hands of one (almost certainly) man? Also, John's post has made we wonder why we need ministers? Surely a better system would be to have the head of each branch responsible and accountable for the delivery of certain objectives as decided by Tynwald? When I challenged an MHK about an issue, the above is what he said we have now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 I do not know anything about PAG but it is interesting to see the summary of MHKs comments included in this item form the IOM Today 'Your Shout' thread on this topic. What is equally interesting is the lack of comments from other members of Tynwald. I guess that they said - democracy - no way! Ironic isn't it that according to the Tynwald website: "The Council sit at a semi-circular table in the centre of which is the President's Chair, which was presented by the Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia in celebration of the millennium of Tynwald". Both Houses of that Parliament (Representaives and Senate) are elected by the people. Thirty years after our millenium celebrations predictably nothing has changed here in having LegCo popularly elected. These extracts from the 2006 General Election manifestos of 11 of our elected MHKs illustrate a willingness for change.David Anderson - Constitution - I have been a supporter of the retention of the Legislative Council and the role it plays in scrutinising legislation and looking at issues from a broader Island-wide perspective. I would support a directly elected Legislative Council but not the proposal to elect all Tynwald members at once and then divide into two chambers. Martyn Quayle - "Constitutional Reform - To achieve Constitutional Reform to popularly elect the eight members of Legislative Council and to achieve a fair and equitable distribution of House of Keys seats, for example to achieve 12 x 2 seat Constituencies." David Cretney - I have always supported a directly elected Tynwald rather than MHKs voting for MLCs. Steve Rodan - Constitutional Reform - ALL Members of Tynwald should be directly elected by the public. The present system where 8 members of Legislative Council are appointed by Keys Members is wrong. They represent a quarter of the voting power in Tynwald but are not directly accountable to you, the electors, for their actions. It is especially unacceptable in a democracy that they should serve as Ministers - however worthy the individual may be. For two years I steered the Constitution Bill through the Keys to try and correct this - ensuring that 32 members of Tynwald would be elected by the public at a single election. Unfortunately conflicting and vested interests thwarted this reforming legislation. Phil Gawne - I will continue to support any legislation which results in a directly elected Legislative Council. Juan Watterson - I would like to see the Legislative Council elected. All of our politicians should have a mandate from the people, if they are to lead us. Peter Karran - Liberal Vannin advocates that all representatives of the people should be elected by the people. Brenda Cannell - The members of the Legislative Council must be elected by the public, and not, as is present practise, by the members of the House of Keys. Phil Braidwood - A popularly elected Legislative Council - I have already made it clear that I would be in favour of such a change. I believe democracy would be better served if all political members have a clear mandate from the people. Tim Crookall - M.H.K.'s and members of the Legislative Council should be voted in at General Election time. Then we would not have the situation where Ministers of Tynwald have never been elected by the people or are not answerable at the next election. David Cannan - Constitution - To establish a Government that is fully democratic and has the confidence of the people it will be necessary to reform the Legislative Council and have a 32 seat Tynwald - all elected at a General Election - together with a Chief minister, similarly elected at the General Election. Mr Cannan is the only one to have actually done anything about it, when he introduced a Constitution Bill in May 2007. It was hi-jacked by major amendments from Martyn Quayle that has resulted in this latest rejection. It's so frustrating for those of us who want a truly democratic parliamentary system. W. ROGER TOMLINSON, www.positiveactiongroup.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 If Peter Karran - Liberal Vannin advocates that all representatives of the people should be elected by the people. Doesn't that also mean that Malarkey stood on a manifesto that made that pledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Yes he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Regarding post by 'manshimajin' above, I am sure most if not all MHKs and for that matter MLCs are in favour of a popularly elected Legislative Council, but not in any old format, although it is worth noting that 13 MHKs voted for the latest Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Regarding post by 'manshimajin' above, I am sure most if not all MHKs and for that matter MLCs are in favour of a popularly elected Legislative Council, but not in any old format, although it is worth noting that 13 MHKs voted for the latest Bill. Then shouldn't the 'revising chamber' get on and make some suggestions as to how to bring this about rather than worrying about TT entertainment and who sits where at their table? Goodness it can't be rocket science for such august people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Well I s'pose there is no reason why a Constitution Bill couldn't derive from upstairs in the Legislative Council. I think it might be interesting to see what the House of Keys might make of it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 Tynwald 14 July Order Paper 53. Constituency Expenses of the Legislative Council - The Hon Member for Michael (Mr Cannan) to move - That Tynwald is of the opinion that the annual payment of £6,178.44 tax free for constituency expenses paid to Members of the Legislative Council should be abolished. For unelected persons without a constituency that's not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Tynwald 14 July Order Paper 53. Constituency Expenses of the Legislative Council - The Hon Member for Michael (Mr Cannan) to move - That Tynwald is of the opinion that the annual payment of £6,178.44 tax free for constituency expenses paid to Members of the Legislative Council should be abolished. For unelected persons without a constituency that's not bad. You're beginning to see the light. Yippee. (Can't imagine this one getting through) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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