cheesypeas Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Whilst we are at it, can we have an all Island rate please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesypeas Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Whilst we are at it, can we have an all Island rate please. No you can't, greedy Douglas yokel Freeloading cave dweller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinuk1 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I would visit the Island more if it was cheaper to travel, but perhaps charges for visitors culd be different for locals not sure how you would manage that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bawden Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I ain't signing.....If a family can afford to travel on long haul flights for a holiday then the extra tax shouldn't really be an issue, just means the vicki pollards of the world will just have to go to toremellinos instead of invading the seyschelles Personally I think that the global warming issue is a complete load of cock, but we as a race are too arrogant thinking that we have a right to cheap long haul flights..there that's me two penneth worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Certainly not signing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I'm not signing it, I go with slim on this one for once, if you don't like the extra on your there's always a boat etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I think a lot of people are missing the point. Like the initial post indicated this is not some sort of hypothecated tax to go towards environmental issues. It will go into the general tax take (like "road tax") and be used for things like rescuing the banks, social services, MP's expenses etc etc. There's a lot of sanctimonous posting on here. If any of those declaring their opposition to the petition drink or smoke would they be so apathetitic about , what was it a 112% increase in tax on drinking or smoking products, or any other form of indirect taxation - VAT for example?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I think a lot of people are missing the point. Like the initial post indicated this is not some sort of hypothecated tax to go towards environmental issues. It will go into the general tax take (like "road tax") and be used for things like rescuing the banks, social services, MP's expenses etc etc. There's a lot of sanctimonous posting on here. If any of those declaring their opposition to the petition drink or smoke would they be so apathetitic about , what was it a 112% increase in tax on drinking or smoking products, or any other form of indirect taxation - VAT for example?. Yep more BS to up prices (already astronomical here) and claw back more poor peoples money, then as is usually the case proceed to piss the new found revenue right up the wall and then add heftier taxes to deal with lack of available funds.All in the name of environmental issues that usually don`t even begin to be addressed in any sensible way,so people can feel like they are being greener, but all thay are actually doing is contributing more money to multi million pound companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Well I am making another long haul trip this year as it is silly for planes to be flying around the world half full. My trip will not increase the CO2 emissions as the plane will be making the journey anyway. If governments increase tax they discourage the airlines like EasyJet and Ryanair that fly with near full passenger payloads. If they want to improve the environment they need to get rid of the likes of BA and other 'high cost' airlines that not only fly half empty but with enormous under-utilisation of cabin space caused by 1st and Business Class. What really irritates me at present is that we are actually delivering the carbon reductions the politicians carried on about pre-recession and now they want us to step up consumption! the hypocrisy of politicians takes some believing. Car sales down by about 60-70% which saves enormously on manufacturing carbon footprint, mineral extraction, scrappage pollution etc. Retail sales are down around the world - with another commensurate reduction in manufacturing pollution. Shipping is down significantly as goods and minerals are not being exported at anything like the level they were. Air travel is down about 15% - maybe more. House construction is almost at a standstill saving enormous amounts of CO2 in the production of concrete, bricks etc etc. Power consumption is down with another saving on CO2. More people are growing their own veggies saving imports from Kenya. Hopefully computer gaming is down saving electricity, though I doubt it! They have not stopped the methane emissions from cattle which is one of the big environmental problems but most other things have reduce carbon footprints compared with 24 months ago. Of course the EU politicians still move their parliament and its administration every month from Brussels to Strasbourg to generate CO2 whilst lecturing everyone else about reducing it. So instead of worrying about a reduced number of planes flying around why not concentrate on how to maintain into the 'recovery' the major quantum leap in carbon footprint reduction being achieved by the recession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaipyr Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Read some of the For and Against posts - and I won't be signing it (I don't fly anyway - if I can't get there by a boat or two I don't go!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Read some of the For and Against posts - and I won't be signing it (I don't fly anyway - if I can't get there by a boat or two I don't go!) Yes, but then you`ll have to deal with the Twatpacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Personally I think that the global warming issue is a complete load of cock, but we as a race are too arrogant thinking that we have a right to cheap long haul flights..there that's me two penneth worth. That makes absolutely no sense. If (unsurprisingly) you don't accept climate change, why do you think air travel should be taxed more? Reason, of course I'd prefer an aviation fuel tax which was funneled straight into sustainable travel, but even raising prices with a tax that just goes into the common purse will still discourage air travel. Better than nothing. Manshimajin, I agree with you, but like I've said many times on here, I don't see these things as exclusive. Many people post things here that basically say "Why don't they stop (doing that thing that affects me) and start (doing something bigger that doesn't directly affect me at all)?". I think we should be doing both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I read in The Times today that in the UK (and presumably here too) 23% of individual carbon footprints was accounted for by the production and transportation of food. I understand that transport in total accounts for about 13% and air travel, within this total, 3%. This suggests that a very productive area is to deal with the ridiculous way we import food. Do I really need rock hard strawberries from Spain, red peppers from Holland or beans from Kenya? A food importation carbon tax? My concern about the UK Air Passenger Duty is that it could if not careful act against efficient (ie flying near full and economy only) airlines rather than airlines that use their internal space inefficiently or which have fare structures that lead to them flying half full. By making it per passenger not per plane it does not really deal with the half-full plane syndrome. For example recently I was on Singapore Airlines and they have mini-suites for some 1st class passengers - if there was a tax based on how much space you occupy (or prevent others from occupying) then presumably passengers in suites would pay a very high tax relative to those down the back. If planes are a problem taxes should be structured to reward best practice not to penalise it. At present there is a single rate per passenger whether the person is travelling 1st, Business or Economy even though the footprints of each class is enormously different. There is a discount for Economy under certain conditions but this is small relative to the impact of different classes of traveller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I can't recommend anything better than David MacKay's Sustainable Energy - without the Hot Air for a straightforward, back of the envelope look at Carbon Footprints etc. Chapter 5 deals with planes - on average 30 kWh/person/day Chapter 13 food and farming - on average 15 kWh/person/day and Chapter 15 with making and transporting the stuff of modern life to us - 48 kWh/person/day The total usage 195 kWh/person/day. Manshimajin, the only problem is that people use 1000s of consumer items per year - trying to get incremental improvements out of all those items is hard. But they only take a few flights (I think you take more than most!). It is simpler to reduce flight numbers - which will have a big effect - than trying to find ways of getting your food more efficiently delivered - sure don't eat strawberries from Kenya or whatever, but you don't actually eat that many strawberries from Kenya - its the bread and potatoes which are the issue and they tend to come more locally in reasonably efficient supply chains. Sure grow them yourself - we used to, and I really should get the grow back out again! But cutting the number of flights will more than likely make a far larger incremental change than trying to find a way to get an ecologically friendly packet of crisps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I read in The Times today that in the UK (and presumably here too) 23% of individual carbon footprints was accounted for by the production and transportation of food. I understand that transport in total accounts for about 13% and air travel, within this total, 3%. This suggests that a very productive area is to deal with the ridiculous way we import food. Do I really need rock hard strawberries from Spain, red peppers from Holland or beans from Kenya? A food importation carbon tax? I'd prefer that. I remember when fruit and veg was seasonable and it was a treat to have strawberries in the summer. Some apples that we buy coming in from the far east are 5-6 months old FFS! It's nice to eat with the seasons and you can usually tell the difference in taste. As well as the damage to the UK food producing industry when it's impossible to compete with cheaper imported substandard alternatives. There's an interesting list of food miles for typical produce here: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/g...ate-451139.html I'll list a few from that page: TOMATOES The tomato plant was first grown in England in the 1590s, but despite being a staple of greenhouses countrywide, China produces the most, churning out more than 30 million per year. UK consumers have become used to getting their tomatoes from Saudi Arabia. Grown to look good and last for ages, these love apples tend to be rather lacking in flavour. The British Tomato Growers Association says two thirds of the tomatoes eaten in the UK are imported. Typical exporter: Saudi Arabia Food miles to UK: 3,100 C02 (kg/pack of six): by sea 0.04; by air 1.2 Price: approx 99p/420g £2.35/kg SPRING ONIONS The most common kind of spring onion is the Welsh onion, Allium fistulosum. Ironic considering how many scallions are imported from Thailand. Typical exporter: Thailand Food miles to UK: 5,900 CO2 (kg/pack): by sea 0.04; by air 1.28 Price: approx 50p/200g; £2.50/kg POTATOES According to the British Potato Council, the UK imports about 350,000 tonnes of tatties a year, including during the English season. Even more depressing is the fact that many of these imported varieties may have been in storage for up to six months. Typical exporter: Israel Food miles to UK: 2,200 C02 (kg/kg): by sea 0.07; by air 2.0 Price: approx £1.50/kg ASPARAGUS Despite the delicious flavour of British asparagus, UK consumers tuck into thousands of tons of Latin American asparagus, even during the British season. Peru is the world's leading asparagus exporter, followed by China and Mexico. The top asparagus importers in 2004 were the United States (92,405 tons), followed by the European Union (external trade 18,565 tons), and Japan (17,148 tons). Main exporter: Peru Food miles to UK: 6,300 C02 (kg per pack): by sea 0.05; by air 1.44 Price: £1.99/250g, £7.96/kg BROCCOLI Traditional purple sprouting English broccoli is only available from February to April, making eating it year-round an ethics-busting luxury. Interestingly, the Food Standards Agency says frozen broccoli has more nutritional value than fresh florets that have been refrigerated for too long. Buy British and keep it in the freezer. Main exporter: Spain Food miles to UK: 780 C02 (kg/broccoli): by sea 0.01; by air 0.22 Price: 38p/ea; £1.28/kg (Sainsbury's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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