bellyup Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 As for bailing out the banks - why do they always start at the top? When a company goes bust it's always those at the top (the most important creditors) who are repaid first (i.e. tax man, bank loans) and the bottom creditors get stiffed (i.e. small businesses owed money by the bust company). It's the same in this case. I can see that jobs are being saved but these companies, if they're nationalized, should be permanently nationalized and directors or former CEOs should be paid sweet FA or at most the same amount as their PA. How about bailing out some of the small businesses? How about tax credits and other tax benefits for ordinary people (and not just "families" but even single people too). Nobody DESERVES bailing out. The very idea of bailing out any business, whether it be important banks or not, demonstrates a hypocritical line of thinking. We live in a society where capitalist practices prevail in the aspects of resources control and ownership of wealth. However, as soon as those who control these things mess up suddently the government steps in support them. It just appears to maintain a status quo that is based on allowing the owners of capital to take risks, but when they make bad risks it is the everyone who has to take to hit. It isn't right. If it weren't for the fact that people accept the current economic system as a unalterable 'given' and look at what damage is caused by capitalist risk-taking - I think there would be far more outrage than there is to bailing out businesses. By that reasoning you are saying that people deserve tp have their savings taken from them. Owners of capital indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Unusual, I know, but I have to come to LDV's defence here, Bellyache. I think he is pointing out that under the neo-liberal capitalist economic system everyone's savings are always at risk and as long as we put up with that system then we take our risks and tough if the system lets us down. I think LDV would have a totally different economic system which would protect people like you somewhat more than the present one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 By that reasoning you are saying that people deserve tp have their savings taken from them. Owners of capital indeed! No, not deserve. It is the consequence of having your savings in a profit-making organisation that is part of an economic system that can go 'tits up'. It is a unfortunate consequence of the nasty system that exists. All I am saying is that there are different rules that appear to imply to some people and organisations in society than others. The governments enforce and maintain capitalist rules for the businesses (and banks) but then apply very different rules to those at the bottom. I don't think this is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Please keep your KSF bleating to the megathread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellyup Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 By that reasoning you are saying that people deserve tp have their savings taken from them. Owners of capital indeed! No, not deserve. It is the consequence of having your savings in a profit-making organisation that is part of an economic system that can go 'tits up'. It is a unfortunate consequence of the nasty system that exists. All I am saying is that there are different rules that appear to imply to some people and organisations in society than others. The governments enforce and maintain capitalist rules for the businesses (and banks) but then apply very different rules to those at the bottom. I don't think this is right. Its not right that honest savers ( those at the bottom) should have their savings taken from them by the machinations of governments I agree but I ask you again how would you do things? What system would you put in place to replace the present one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Combat by glove puppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 What system would you put in place to replace the present one? Don't even go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I would certainly appreciate the Government paying off some of my mortgage and credit cards! Good news then. Thanks to UK govt borrowing and the more or less impossible situation which the UK economy is facing (and thanks to the all important wonderful bond markets) there is a good chance that inflation will significantly wipe out your debts (and the govt's). Assuming your fixed rate mortgage is in GBP you should be able to pay it off with more or less paper money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Unusual, I know, but I have to come to LDV's defence here, Bellyache. I think he is pointing out that under the neo-liberal capitalist economic system everyone's savings are always at risk and as long as we put up with that system then we take our risks and tough if the system lets us down. I think LDV would have a totally different economic system which would protect people like you somewhat more than the present one. I would encourage everyone to read and re-read Niall Ferguson's excellent book The Ascent Of Money, A Financial History Of The World before postulating alternative or previous systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Good news then. Thanks to UK govt borrowing and the more or less impossible situation which the UK economy is facing (and thanks to the all important wonderful bond markets) there is a good chance that inflation will significantly wipe out your debts (and the govt's). Assuming your fixed rate mortgage is in GBP you should be able to pay it off with more or less paper money. You seen the fixed rate deals at the mo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Good news then. Thanks to UK govt borrowing and the more or less impossible situation which the UK economy is facing (and thanks to the all important wonderful bond markets) there is a good chance that inflation will significantly wipe out your debts (and the govt's). Assuming your fixed rate mortgage is in GBP you should be able to pay it off with more or less paper money. You seen the fixed rate deals at the mo? Property is going to hold value better than sterling bank deposits or the value of debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Its not right that honest savers ( those at the bottom) should have their savings taken from them by the machinations of governments I agree but I ask you again how would you do things? What system would you put in place to replace the present one? What machinations do you mean first? Though in asking, are you talking about KSF in particular? I think it is disgusting that any personal savings have been lost - but then I think the whole financial crisis as a whole is absolutely shocking in how it has taken place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Its not right that honest savers ( those at the bottom) should have their savings taken from them by the machinations of governments I agree but I ask you again how would you do things? What system would you put in place to replace the present one? It's also not right that people who invested then lost it because where they invested in went tits up, to expect other taxpayers to bail them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Its not right that honest savers ( those at the bottom) should have their savings taken from them by the machinations of governments I agree but I ask you again how would you do things? What system would you put in place to replace the present one? It's also not right that people who invested then lost it because where they invested in went tits up, to expect other taxpayers to bail them out. Ok, why is it right to bail out the bank then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Only solution to the risks of losing your saved money is to spend it as soon as possible. Who knows what the future holds and you can't spend the money when you're dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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