bluemonday Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Riders don't just crash their bikes and die instantly, I could easily say i'd prefer to have a pain free death (ie die instantly), but this rarely happens, all swept under the carpet, this guys last dying moment was reaching for his missing leg (in considerible pain i'd imagine), he didn't die doing what he loved, he didn't love crashing, he loved staying on the road at high speed and in one piece. Thank you. That is the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 If the bikes were somehow restricted to match the course, this would presumably reduce the popularity of the event? I'd imagine so, but the thrill of the course would still be there. Re : restricting bikes, this could be done simply by engine size, as an example 125's or 250's, rather than 1ltr engines maximised for top speed, or even by gearing on the bigger engines, this isn't restricting the fun or the thrill by much. 130mph laps are why beyond human control IMO and thats what the TT seems to be pushing for, maximum speed. Look at what F1 has done in the last 20 years compared to say the TT? A very quick type in google of "200mph IOM tt", produces some rather interesting results mostly advertisements for the islands great roads + no limit areas, and a snippet of a oute from one link : speeds reach more than 200mph just inches from houses, walls and hedges. Does that read "thrill"?, "dangerous"? or stupidty? to people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 And there's the crux. Implement more safety procedures and the the howsl of ' It's the TT, it's the only one in the world' will start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Martin Brundle has a column on the BBC website http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8170736.stm I found it fairly interesting and I would highlight a couple of phrases. Fistly "I don't like the term 'freak accident' because while regularly travelling the world's tracks at 200mph, serious accidents are inevitable." This to me seems eminently sensible as it reflects my view however it seems the polar opposite to the view of many road race supporters as it appears that accidents are forever being described as unique or similar Secondly "The repercussions of both Surtees's death and Massa's accident have led to widespread calls for increased safety" and "there have been many deaths and injuries, but these have been dramatically reduced as car and circuit safety evolved along with onsite medical facilities." Again these reflect my concerns with the TT and road racing on the IoM in that in other sports serious injury and death causes a detailed review of safety and consequently safety has been greatly improved. The TT again gives the impression that it does the polar opposite, i.e. nothing but shrug its shoulders and say well what do you expect it is a dangerous sport. If the TT etc gave the impression that it took safety and accidents as seriously as other sports do I would have less have an issue with it. It is the simple acceptance that a level of death and horific injury is acceptable that I find abhorant. If that attitude changed so might my feelings about the TT. I would highlight this point with the fact that airbags were only introduced slowly around the course even though it was achknowledged they provide much better protection than straw bales. The reason behind the slow introduction was cost. In other words the budget was given a higher priority than safety. In my view that is an apalling attitude to take with regard to somebody life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 To add to that : For example I can toddle round the TT course at 20mph, unlikely to have an injury (on closed roads). As I increase that speed, I increase the risks of (IMO and order) : A : Rider error (as everything turns to a blur flying just inches from people, walls, hedges and houses etc) B : Mechanical error C : Enviromental error (roads, wildlife, people etc...) Do you really think those that lost their lives on the TT course didn't think "Oh shit, what about ....." or would want a second chance to be with their family as they were laying thier dying, its not as black and white as "died instantly", anybody thats had an accident can say seconds feel like minutes or that indeed it was a silly thing to do, learnt the hard way and move on. (bit like Milky when he had that bad crash). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 It needs a new niche. It can't be a road race and have the latest and fastest bikes. The course can't be made much safer, and bikes will continue to get faster. Something has to change surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 What I can't get over is the totally different response of the Formula 1 management to the injury to Felipe Massa - there aren't many shrugged shoulders and talk about him doing a job that he loved, rather there are statements that this is a wake up call and that those responsible can never be complacent about driver safety. The road racing community seems to have an attitude that deaths are inevitable and they can just continue year after year with a rising body count. That attitude sickens me. Whether it is Formula 1, or building safety, or whatever huge efforts are made to minimize injuries - courses are redesigned, corners altered, sliding zones added, technical specs of cars and bikes altered etc etc. The shrugged shoulder - its a road, it can't be altered, people know the risks response I hear again and again - all the while bikes get faster and more powerful with more acceleration and braking etc - the death toll on the Island's roads is unacceptable, but the road racing community is like a frog in a boiling pan, accepting deaths year after year and saying this is acceptble, business should carry on as usual, the riders love what they do. Well as Nitro says - they don't love dying with their legs severed off - they love the thrill of controlling a bike with precision - too often this doesn't occur - people loose control and the speeds involved mean that any mistake is likely to result in very very serious consequences. I fail to see why road racing on this Island should continue to have a get out of jail free card with the excuse that the people involved love what they do. People love racing Formula 1 cars - they have improved their safety 100 fold or whatever in the last 50 years - has the TT done that? The organized, state sponsored, he-just-loved-doing-it death toll on our roads is wrong. I can't say anything more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think they should just have them nice slow quiet electric bikes, problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Roo Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think they should just have them nice slow quiet electric bikes, problem solved The slower the better,vroom vroom. Infact why dont they have a competition to see who can be the slowest round the course, it would mean longer road closures but the guys and girls would live longer. It would be an idea to build a proper race track out in jurby and be done with the mountain for racing. They do reckon all the best ideas come from women so i could be onto something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think they should just have them nice slow quiet electric bikes, problem solved The slower the better,vroom vroom. Infact why dont they have a competition to see who can be the slowest round the course, it would mean longer road closures but the guys and girls would live longer. It would be an idea to build a proper race track out in jurby and be done with the mountain for racing. They do reckon all the best ideas come from women so i could be onto something here. I thought it was such a waste gutting out those mini electric cars that they had in the Mooragh Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Roo Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I thought it was such a waste gutting out those mini electric cars that they had in the Mooragh Park. Sorry LDV i must of blinked and missed them, just asked my son and he does'nt know either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 The TT has less serious accidents now due to the improved safety measures being put in place. The standard of riders here now is a lot higher than it used to be. Yes the machines are a lot quicker but so are the brakes. The amount of money spent on the bikes these days goes to show how serious the riders take their safety. Tyres are change nearly every two laps at a cost of over £200 per pair, brakes are serviced after every practice or races, suspension units that are used on the bikes now are state of the art, a set of forks can cost more than the price of the Bike. As for the use of the air bags, they are used when possible and not on budget restraints, You cant use the bags on every corner due to space. Most of this years accidents were caused by unusual circumstances, two were caused by wildlife on the track, one or two down to oil on the track, one by a nail in the tyre, one by loss of control due to wind. Nealy every rider that has had an accident at the TT and survived has returned to race the TT again and that includes riders that have almost died or have lost limbs. The TT is now the safest road race in the world but carries a bad name due to its past, its not the fastest road race the UGP is, the roads on the TT are twice the width of most of the other road races. Even when the TT try hard to make improvements you can always bet the local idiots are out on the track spreading nails, oil diesel etc in the hope of causing an accident, and this happens quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Even when the TT try hard to make improvements you can always bet the local idiots are out on the track spreading nails, oil diesel etc in the hope of causing an accident, and this happens quite a lot. That's a pretty serious (and wild) allegation. I hope you have something to back that up. Debris on the track is a risk of racing on roads that are used for public transportation 99% of the year I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Roo Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 The TT has less serious accidents now due to the improved safety measures being put in place. The standard of riders here now is a lot higher than it used to be. Yes the machines are a lot quicker but so are the brakes. The amount of money spent on the bikes these days goes to show how serious the riders take their safety. Tyres are change nearly every two laps at a cost of over £200 per pair, brakes are serviced after every practice or races, suspension units that are used on the bikes now are state of the art, a set of forks can cost more than the price of the Bike.As for the use of the air bags, they are used when possible and not on budget restraints, You cant use the bags on every corner due to space. Most of this years accidents were caused by unusual circumstances, two were caused by wildlife on the track, one or two down to oil on the track, one by a nail in the tyre, one by loss of control due to wind. Nealy every rider that has had an accident at the TT and survived has returned to race the TT again and that includes riders that have almost died or have lost limbs. The TT is now the safest road race in the world but carries a bad name due to its past, its not the fastest road race the UGP is, the roads on the TT are twice the width of most of the other road races. Even when the TT try hard to make improvements you can always bet the local idiots are out on the track spreading nails, oil diesel etc in the hope of causing an accident, and this happens quite a lot. OMG Lee54 who are you trying to kid! "improved safety measures", ridiculous speeds kill....And it is only a matter of time before your luck runs out, was'nt Joey Dunlop the best? It is never in a million years going to be a safe sport. As for "local idiots" spreading nails etc, well thats just pure evil, but the racers and their families know the risks on the course and to that i have one message, PLEASE PUT YOUR CHILDREN FIRST, they would much sooner you take them to the park, swimming, or just reading them a book than the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Even when the TT try hard to make improvements you can always bet the local idiots are out on the track spreading nails, oil diesel etc in the hope of causing an accident, and this happens quite a lot. That's a pretty serious (and wild) allegation. I hope you have something to back that up. Debris on the track is a risk of racing on roads that are used for public transportation 99% of the year I would have thought. Last year a race was delayed and it was widely reported that large quantities of nails were fond on the coarse by the Marshall's. This year A sweeper had to be sent out to clean up a large deposit of diesel that was found on a remote part of the coarse. A hedge along side the coarse was set on fire shortly before the practices started. The information was broadcasted over radio TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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