Lee54 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hitherto, a great supporter of the TT (with absolutely no understanding, just thought it was great for the IOM), but that is dwindling now as I do want to understand the injuries these guys face and also the mode of their death. As a poster above correctly pointed out, the 'declared dead at the scene' or 'declared dead on arrival' does hide the horror of these accidents. I doubt that such 'sensitive' reporting does anything to help the family, but it does a great deal to obfuscate the human cost of participation. In the 1970's there was a horrific accident at the top of Bray Hill where a sidecar (I think) hit the manhole cover and half the driver ended up in one garden, the other half elsewhere and the head of the passenger somewhere else. For years that manhole cover was marked with a yellow line to warn competitors; the official line was instant deaths. I doubt it, even with the severe injuries. But that information was never made public, it was all rumour. Without being voyeuristic, I do think that a more frank reporting of these accidents will allow everyone to properly evaluate the worth of the TT, MGP etc. and whether we really want it. The accident your referring to is that of Nac Hobson and Kenny Birch, I think it was about 1978, If you want to know the full extent of their injuries, the ones you have posted are just rumour and speculation. The full details of the injuries can be obtained by applying for a copy of the inquest report from the Governments records office. Many riders have also been killed on race tracks, Moto GP Deaths at the MotoGP Listed are fatalities of riders in Grand Prix motorcycle racing championship races since its foundation in 1949. 1949 Ben Drinkwater (GBR) GP Isle of Man 1950 David Whitworth (GBR) GP Spa Francorchamps 1951 Dario Ambrosini (ITA) GP Albi 1951 Gianni Leoni (ITA) Ulster GP 1951 Sante Geminiani (ITA) Ulster GP 1952 Dave Bennett (GBR) GP Bern 1953 Leslie Graham (GBR) GP Isle of Man 1954 Rupert Hollaus (AUT) GP Monza Practice 1954 Dennis Lashmar (GBR) GP Solitude 1956 Derek Ennett (GBR) Ulster GP 1957 Charlie Salt (GBR) GP Isle of Man 1957 Roberto Colombo (ITA) GP Spa Francorchamps 1960 Bob Brown (AUS) GP Solitude 1960 Peter Febrache (GBR) GP Assen 1961 Ron Miles (AUS) GP Dundrod 1963 Marcellin Herranz (FRA) GP Charade 1964 Vernon Cottle (GBR) GP Imatra 1965 Ramón Torras (SPA) GP Barcelona 1969 Bill Ivy (GBR) GP Sachsenring[12] 1969 Robin Fitton (GBR) GP Nürburgring 1971 Christian Ravel (FRA) GP Spa Francorchamps 1971 Günter Bartusch (GDR) GP Sachsenring 1973 Renzo Pasolini (ITA) GP Monza 1973 Jarno Saarinen (FIN) GP Monza 1974 Billie Nelson (GBR) GP Opatija 1975 Rolf Thiele (BRD) GP Assen 1976 Otello Buscherini (ITA) GP Mugello 1976 Paolo Tordi (ITA) GP Mugello 1977 Ulrich Graf (SUI) GP Opatija 1977 Giovanni Zigiotto (ITA) GP Opatija 1977 Hans Stadelmann (SUI) GP Salzburgring 1977 Piers Forester (GBR) Brands Hatch Powerbike International 1980 Patrick Pons (FRA) GP Silverstone 1981 Michel Rougerie (FRA) GP Yugoslavia 1981 Sauro Pazzaglia (ITA) GP Imola 1981 Alain Beraud (FRA) GP Brno 1983 Michel Frutschi (SUI) GP Le Mans 1983 Rolf Rüttimann (SUI) GP Rijeka 1983 Norman Brown (NIR) GP Silverstone 1983 Peter Huber (SUI) GP Silverstone 1984 Kevin Wrettom (ENG) GP Spa-Francorchamps 1989 Iván Palazzese (VEN) GP Hockenheim 1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz 2003 Daijiro Kato (JPN) GP Suzuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz 2003 Daijiro Kato (JPN) GP Suzuka Note how few in recent years, because other motor racing has come up to date and reduced fatalities and the TT hasn't been able to. That's the point, it's out of date. Either the bikes need to be restricted to match the course, or the whole thing needs to be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz 2003 Daijiro Kato (JPN) GP Suzuka Note how few in recent years, because other motor racing has come up to date and reduced fatalities and the TT hasn't been able to. That's the point, it's out of date. Either the bikes need to be restricted to match the course, or the whole thing needs to be stopped. Thats not the complete up to date list, there has been a few more over the past ten years that have not been listed. But why do the manufacturers produce bikes that can reach speeds of 200mph straight out the showroom if they cant be used, same for cars. Car racing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_racin..._racing_crashes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Note how few in recent years, because other motor racing has come up to date and reduced fatalities and the TT hasn't been able to. That's the point, it's out of date. Either the bikes need to be restricted to match the course, or the whole thing needs to be stopped. Actually, the same can be said for the TT since 2005, the last time there were significant number of racer fatalities. Safety at the TT has come on leaps and bounds since it's inception. It is better now than ever. They are continually trying to improve it, and doing a very good job too. What needs to be stopped is the bloody whinging by people who don't like it because it inconveniences them for a few hours a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Cambon, no there hasn't been a significant reduction at all. Are you just making stuff up? Did you see the list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Snaef...fatal_accidents Thats not the complete up to date list, there has been a few more over the past ten years that have not been listed. Ah, so your own information presented is bogus? But why do the manufacturers produce bikes that can reach speeds of 200mph straight out the showroom if they cant be used, same for cars. I've no idea. I'd rather they didn't. Car racinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_racin..._racing_crashes Fatalities on many courses, not just one. You really don't get the whole like for like thing do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 One rule for one, one rule for all? I therefore presume Lee45 will be complaining loudly about the reporting of this inquest and how it shows lack of respect to the persons family and friends http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Sex-offende...cted.5499677.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 One rule for one, one rule for all? I therefore presume Lee45 will be complaining loudly about the reporting of this inquest and how it shows lack of respect to the persons family and friends http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Sex-offende...cted.5499677.jp If it had been said he was the father of young children then yes a bit of respcet could have been given. But lets face it this case could have been a murder case so is slightly different in its investigation and inquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 If it had been said he was the father of young children then yes a bit of respcet could have been given. But lets face it this case could have been a murder case so is slightly different in its investigation and inquest. He presumably had family and friends who in respect of Motorbike accidents you say are due respect or is it now only if they had kids. It could have been a murder case but it was not, he could have been a martian, it could have been anything if you want to try & divert attention from the facts which you appear to generally want to try and do. I see from the inquest of the sidecar rider there is a video of the crash. I presume you will be wanting to watch this considering you view is the guy would have been happy to die doing what he enjoyed. So presumably out of respect you would want to enjoy watching this moment of him doing what he in return enjoyed. It would seem disrespectful from your standpoint not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 If it had been said he was the father of young children then yes a bit of respcet could have been given. But lets face it this case could have been a murder case so is slightly different in its investigation and inquest. He presumably had family and friends who in respect of Motorbike accidents you say are due respect or is it now only if they had kids. It could have been a murder case but it was not, he could have been a martian, it could have been anything if you want to try & divert attention from the facts which you appear to generally want to try and do. In OKLAHOMA CITY convicted sex offenders on kids get the death penalty, so he saved the taxpayer a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Cambon, no there hasn't been a significant reduction at all. Are you just making stuff up? Did you see the list? I am well aware of the figures. In the last four TTs there have been three fatalities. In 2004 and 2005 there were three fatalities in each year. How does that make the last four years not a reduction? I used to dread the 8:00am news every morning during practice and race week. I don't anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 In OKLAHOMA CITY convicted sex offenders on kids get the death penalty, so he saved the taxpayer a few quid. As per the majority of replies you throw in another erroneous statement as nowhere in the report I linked to does it mention kids. Rather it reports an offence in 2007 against a 16 year old Could I recommend the following as it may help you when replying to posts. http://www.understandmore.com/i-adults.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I am well aware of the figures. In the last four TTs there have been three fatalities. In 2004 and 2005 there were three fatalities in each year. How does that make the last four years not a reduction? I used to dread the 8:00am news every morning during practice and race week. I don't anymore. In 1999 and 1998 there were 'only' three also, the big blip in 2005 doesn't really make the following years safer on average. 1971: 2, 1972:2, 1973: 2, 1974: 2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Cambon, no there hasn't been a significant reduction at all. Are you just making stuff up? Did you see the list? I am well aware of the figures. In the last four TTs there have been three fatalities. In 2004 and 2005 there were three fatalities in each year. How does that make the last four years not a reduction? I used to dread the 8:00am news every morning during practice and race week. I don't anymore. There were three alone in 2007. I always think the more relevent figure is deaths and life changing injuries as I presume there can be at times a fine line which side you come out on. In this case life changing meaning unable to care for themselves for the rest of their lives or likely to be in pain and require treatment for most of their lives. These figures are hard to come by but sometimes you feel that it is almost better if a person had died than be left in the state they are for the rest of their lives. In recent years I agree there do appear to have been fewer fatalities but there seems to have been a corresponding uplift in those left in a really serious conditions. Now I agree that impression may be wrong but it it is my take on matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Only one life changing injury in 2007 Seamus Green ran into the back of another rider that was touring and should have been pulled over by the marshalls, that rider Maeda paid the price. Seamus is at home in Hospital being looked after very well by family and friend who still follow the road racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee54 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 In OKLAHOMA CITY convicted sex offenders on kids get the death penalty, so he saved the taxpayer a few quid. As per the majority of replies you throw in another erroneous statement as nowhere in the report I linked to does it mention kids. Rather it reports an offence in 2007 against a 16 year old Could I recommend the following as it may help you when replying to posts. http://www.understandmore.com/i-adults.htm http://stage.newsok.com/bill-allows-death-...article/1853014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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