The Tt Safety Debate

[Lost Login]

The comparison is this: people do what they want to do, they know the risks. As long as the mortorbike organisations (ACU is it ?) do their best regarding safety then I'm happy for things to continue as they do.

 

Not everyone wants to sit on the sofa all day watching Emerdale.

 

I appreciate that argument but I do not accept as I believe that whilst as a principal society should be fee to make their own decisions it is not absolute. Acordingly we do not presently allow some activities.

 

The one question I want answered by those who support the TT on the basis that as they know the risks of death and serious injuries is acceptable is do they agree that any number is acceptable on that principal. i.e. 1 a year, 5 a year, 10 a year, 50 a year. On the basis that the riders would know the risks then surely whatever the percentage then they would answer presumably answer yes.

 

I believe to the contrary and it relates to all sports and activities and that there comes a point where if the level of risk and danger reaches an unacceptable level some control should be considered and introduced. What is an unacceptable level is a matter of personal opinion. Presently those who state that riders know the risk appear to be arguing that any level of risk is acceptable which I fingd abhorant. I do not expect people to have to die for my entertainment

[GD4ELI]

The safety should be measured per participant and per time spent on the activity.

 

OK - factor in all the winter hours in the garage (or kitchen) mending the motor, playing with the bike etc.

[Manxman2000]

Not everyone wants to sit on the sofa all day watching Emerdale.

 

How many have died watching Emerdale ?

 

sack the ACU and get Dignitas to run the TT, problem solved !

[Tempus Fugit]

Not everyone wants to sit on the sofa all day watching Emerdale.

 

How many have died watching Emerdale ?

 

 

I've nearly died of boredom watching some tv programmes

[Lost Login]

The safety should be measured per participant and per time spent on the activity.

 

OK - factor in all the winter hours in the garage (or kitchen) mending the motor, playing with the bike etc.

 

Why? Nobody is arguing aginst riding Motor Bikes, preparing reparing etc. The discussion purely relates to riding a Bike in the TT, MGP.

[Slim]

OK - factor in all the winter hours in the garage (or kitchen) mending the motor, playing with the bike etc.

 

I had previously had you down as an intelligent poster.

 

OK, even with that extra time, you're still only talking about 30 riders tops per race and what, four different classes? Not many at all given the number of deaths.

 

Where's your alps stat from? How many participants? How much time they they spend buying their equipment, preparing it, dreaming about mountains, reading mountaineering magazines, trimming their beards and polishing their poles?

 

Silly argument.

[Rog]

Apart from the fatalities how about the injured?

 

And how about who picks up the bill for their ongoing care?

 

Not the Isle of Man, the people in the countries where the killed and injured come from.

 

And in the case of British bikers and spectators when they are injured or even those many people injured while visiting the Island for the barbaric uncivilized public road motorcycle races simply because of the lack of a sensible overall speed limit on the Isle of Man, and once again that means mostly the tax payers.

 

The BRITISH tax payers.

 

If that were not MORE than enough and quite apart from the additional call on the NHS when the injured can travel the British government then has to make payments often for long years to support the many who are injured, or to the families of those who have been killed.

 

And all the time the Manx are trousering the spoils.

 

It really is time this silly juvenile out of date thing was brought to an end.

 

Maybe one way would be for insurance companies to load premiums for cover when people visit the Island to a point where it simply became impossible for the public to travel.

 

Maybe by the British government requiring all motor vehicles that have been to the Isle of Man to go through an MOT immediately before allowing them back on British roads.

 

I really do hate the TT and all that it entails.

[fubar]

Apart from the fatalities how about the injured?

 

And how about who picks up the bill for their ongoing care?

 

Not the Isle of Man, the people in the countries where the killed and injured come from.

 

And in the case of British bikers and spectators when they are injured or even those many people injured while visiting the Island for the barbaric uncivilized public road motorcycle races simply because of the lack of a sensible overall speed limit on the Isle of Man, and once again that means mostly the tax payers.

 

The BRITISH tax payers.

 

If that were not MORE than enough and quite apart from the additional call on the NHS when the injured can travel the British government then has to make payments often for long years to support the many who are injured, or to the families of those who have been killed.

 

And all the time the Manx are trousering the spoils.

 

It really is time this silly juvenile out of date thing was brought to an end.

 

Maybe one way would be for insurance companies to load premiums for cover when people visit the Island to a point where it simply became impossible for the public to travel.

 

Maybe by the British government requiring all motor vehicles that have been to the Isle of Man to go through an MOT immediately before allowing them back on British roads.

 

I really do hate the TT and all that it entails.

 

Hello Salford

[jimbms]

Easy solution, if you don't like the TT then fuck off to where they dont have it and lets those who don't mind it enjoy it without dogooders bleating on

[jonnyrotten]

Easy solution, if you don't like the TT then fuck off to where they dont have it and lets those who don't mind it enjoy it without dogooders bleating on

 

 

You see that doesn't really contribute to the debate, does it.

 

Just makes you look like an ignorant toad who can't express an opinion and therefore resorts to swearing an insult, and sadly tars the genuine TT supporters, and the rest of the Manx population, with the same brush.

 

Very silly indeed.

[Fossils]

In the interests of fair comparisons you're going to have to be more detailed in your analysis. Try drawing up a "per racing mile" chart. I know of another road-racing course that is about 6 times more dangerous per mile raced than the TT Course, but the mention of it would not appear so controversial.

 

There is no disputing the dangers involved in racing on the TT Course, but these should be seen within the context of many other activities and/or sports. If humans are involved in anything, there is risk of death present (and insurers make a killing).

 

Horse riding, even non-competitively, is another high risk activity. Perhaps it is even, per mile, a greater risk than TT racing. Diving is even more risky, as are most winter sports.

 

.........or are you simply trying to be provocative?

[Fossils]

Just makes you look like an ignorant toad who can't express an opinion and therefore resorts to swearing an insult, and sadly tars the genuine TT supporters, and the rest of the Manx population, with the same brush.

 

Very silly indeed.

 

Oops! You said it.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Great post. Personally I think 'they make the choice' argument goes out the window once our government starts providing prize money and other financial support for the event. We're encouraging this, and it's safety record is unacceptable.

 

Really? I don't think so. The motorcyclist chooses to learn to ride, chooses to enter the competition, and should be very aware of the risks. It may be from a particular point-of-view rather distasteful to offer prize money and financial support but riders know the risks given it is their area of expertise and the awareness of the dangers of the course.

How much responsibility do you really place on the riders for entering the competition and becoming injured or hurt? In other words, to what degree do you believe this encouragement affects their choice?

[Slim]

.........or are you simply trying to be provocative?

 

You've not actually said anything. You've just alluded to some possible higher risks without actually demonstrating them. What's the point in that?

 

From what I can tell, horse riding,rock climbing and mountain biking are all dangerous, and have a high number of injury claims, but a relatively low number of fatalities vs participants. We're talking fatalities with the TT, not sprained wrists.

 

How much responsibility do you really place on the riders for entering the competition and becoming injured or hurt? In other words, to what degree do you believe this encouragement affects their choice?

 

Without the government sponsorship and prize money, the event wouldn't happen. So it's my view that the government holds some responsibility for the safety, or lack of it.

[KMC]

The only real solution for those that want it stopped “for whatever reason” is via the Manx Government and the Riders/Teams themselves.

 

One without the other would do the job, but going by the way things are at the moment, the recent joint ventures with TV and Advertising Rights mean that the IOM Government is set to continue their support for a while yet.

 

However, and as I’ve said before, Health & Safety is the real danger to the continuance of the TT as I see it, and this alone if allowed to bite will eventually bring the TT/MGP and S100 down along with all other Road Racing venues.

 

Just because one doesn’t like the TT/MGP etc, isn’t a valid reason to call a stop to it, but unacceptable accidents, deaths and serious injuries are.

 

The answer, well who knows ????????????????

 

I’ve followed the sport for many years, and have contributed to both safety and riders support during that period, and have also assisted financially some of those that take part. However, and whilst being a great supporter of the TT/MGP and all other Real Road Racing, I too don’t like the level of death and serious injury that we have seen more recently.