Lost Login Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 but riders know the risks given it is their area of expertise and the awareness of the dangers of the course. They may "know the risks" but do they really believe that those risks apply to themselves. I would part a large amount of money on the fact that the majority of riders whilst they may "know" the risks do not believe that they apply to themselves in that they will have a view that in the main the ones who get badly injured and killed are the less skilled riders, the ones who push to hard, the ones who do not ride within their capability. That is not to belittle the riders but it is a natural trait to believe that you are somehow less vulnerable than others and probably applies to most activities in which there is a risk of being hurt if only midly If they really knew and accepted the risks reminding them forcefully shortly before going out should not affect them but i suspect it is the last thing they would want to hear because at that point you have detached yourself from such thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 I think that a lot of people are trying (again) to obscure the facts of the situation by introducing spurious comparisons, as if a number of deaths in one sport makes a number of deaths in another one somehow okay. I believe (though I haven't done the research myself) that the most dangerous spectator sport in the British Isles is.... fishing! However I don't believe that because more people die on river banks than on the TT course every year, that somehow makes the level of inherent risk on the TT circuit acceptable. And there's another equally irrelevant argument that everything we do is dangerous, and bike racers know the risks, etc. Crossing the road is dangerous, but we all do it, probably daily. But we and the government responsible for providing the roads and the pedestrian crosssings do everything we can to minimise the risks. What we DON'T do is organise running marathons on motorways, put up a prize fund and accept that two or three deaths a year is inevitable, but it's okay because all the participants know the dangers. Ever seen Rollerball? Or The Running Man? My original point is that while other sports with an international profile have indeed done everything possible to minimise the risks, the TT hasn't, largely because it's not possible. That's why other forms of sport have abandoned road courses. We all know that telling people who believe that death in sport should be avoided at all costs to "fuck off" if they don't like it is short-sighted and unhelpful. What's not quite so clear is that merely accepting that some degree of fatality is acceptable because the participants like taking part is equally short-sighted and unhelpful. There's no escape from the fact that the human spirit needs challenge, and some need it more than others. The question really is whether a national government should close its road system to its citizens and make it available to those thrill-seekers on an annual basis, and if so, should it not accept responsibility for their safety and do everything in its power to improve safety? And I would take everything in its power to mean not spending a penny on hospitality and high living until all the lamp-posts have been moved, the trees and gateposts and walls padded with something less dangerous than straw bales, and there's air-fence and catch-fencing everywhere. But what will really happen is nothing. Riders will go on dying in politically acceptable two and threes every year until there's a proper big accident in a spectator area - the bottom of Bray Hill perhaps - and when enough members of the public have been hurt it will be time to wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMC Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 but riders know the risks given it is their area of expertise and the awareness of the dangers of the course. They may "know the risks" but do they really believe that those risks apply to themselves. I would part a large amount of money on the fact that the majority of riders whilst they may "know" the risks do not believe that they apply to themselves in that they will have a view that in the main the ones who get badly injured and killed are the less skilled riders, the ones who push to hard, the ones who do not ride within their capability. That is not to belittle the riders but it is a natural trait to believe that you are somehow less vulnerable than others and probably applies to most activities in which there is a risk of being hurt if only midly If they really knew and accepted the risks reminding them forcefully shortly before going out should not affect them but i suspect it is the last thing they would want to hear because at that point you have detached yourself from such thoughts Risks :- A little like smokers who every time they reach for a cigarette must also see the health warnings sprawled all over the packet. Do they take any notice of this? No, they carry on, because it won’t happen to them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Risks :- A little like smokers who every time they reach for a cigarette must also see the health warnings sprawled all over the packet. Do they take any notice of this? No, they carry on, because it won’t happen to them!!! And the government continues to make so much money from smokers via vat and duty that banning a proven fatal product is inconceivable. But they put a notice on the side of the packet and tell people it's dangerous - and people keep on doing it "because they like it" and even though "they know the risks". QED really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 In the interests of fair comparisons you're going to have to be more detailed in your analysis. Try drawing up a "per racing mile" chart. I know of another road-racing course that is about 6 times more dangerous per mile raced than the TT Course, but the mention of it would not appear so controversial. There is no disputing the dangers involved in racing on the TT Course, but these should be seen within the context of many other activities and/or sports. If humans are involved in anything, there is risk of death present (and insurers make a killing). Horse riding, even non-competitively, is another high risk activity. Perhaps it is even, per mile, a greater risk than TT racing. Diving is even more risky, as are most winter sports. .........or are you simply trying to be provocative? I have cut this from the same discussion that was had less than a month ago on the thread about the crash in the Southern 100 Last year worldwide 53 people died skiing out of 60.5 million participating days. That is safer than swimming and on a par with cycling. By contrast allowing for 10 days racing/practice and 1 death the rate for the TT is about 1 death per 1,000 participant days which is roughly 1,000 times worse and I am being generous in my calculation. In fact in the last 25 years it seems on average there have been 4 deaths a year making the TT about 4,000 more dangerous than skiing. That would indicate your figures do not add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xpert Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Lost login - have you actually read ANY of the previous posts in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Lost login - have you actually read ANY of the previous posts in this thread? Err yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milesman Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 As you pointed out nobody forces them to race here. Maybe we do live in La La land but we don't want the TT stopped you obviously do. But haven't got the guts to come out and say it. As for other countries paying the price. ( I don't think that was your comment) How exactly. I suppose you were late home for tea one day, so it should be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 As you pointed out nobody forces them to race here. Maybe we do live in La La land but we don't want the TT stopped you obviously do. But haven't got the guts to come out and say it. As for other countries paying the price. ( I don't think that was your comment) How exactly. I suppose you were late home for tea one day, so it should be banned. There's a difference between "forcing" people to come here, which accusation I have never made or inferred, and providing the facilities, infrastucture and organisation to do so, and then encouraging competitors with prize money and trophies. Which the Isle of Man most certainly does. It's not like the Chief Minister wakes up on the first weekend in June, looks out of his bedroom window and has to wonder what all those bikers are doing racing over the mountain, is it? He knows they're coming, he knows WHY they're coming, and his government has made (admittedly crap) arrangements to make sure they have a good time doing it and get "a good send-off" on the days when it all goes horribly wrong. Which it will. And I've never said I wanted the TT stopped, but I can't see that it would require any special guts to say so if I did, especially on here, so I don't really see the point of that remark. What I do think is that it's about time everyone involved, from Chief Minister to lowliest taxpaying private individual, took a long, unemotional look at what the TT is and why we do it, and then try to make sure we're all happy with the nature of the races and the consequences - and that we're certain we aren't evading any of our responsibilities to the racers simply to preserve an anchronism that keeps the voting guest-house, hotel and bar owners, as well as vendors of T-shirts, burgers etc in a steady fortnight of income. As someone else has said on another thread, there aren't many politicians willing to face up to that one because too many people make too much money in TT fortnight. Which is fine, as long as we're doing all we can to make it safe. But we're not, as the statistics I opened this thread with conclusively demonstrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 How about instead of promoting it off the black and white days, they showed the footage of crashes and the remains of crash victims with the slogan... "Don't worry it won't happen to you!" and please keep risking life and limb to prop up the myth that the IOM will sink if we don't have a TT. Or just call it what it is "Death Race 2010" and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparx2510 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 More people are killed climbing in the Alps every year! Bit late to respond to that, but that's climbing the alps in a year. TT only last 2 weeks . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyrotten Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Just been reading the Examiner. Our benevolent Steam Packet is offering discount travel to paramedics providing safety cover at the MGP this year, as it does for the TT itself. As long as the fare is under £200, that is. Over £200, they get a maximum of £100 back. Which makes a big difference to people who are volunteers. At an event like the TT, the medical services and the marshals are paramount safety considerations. Riders and spetators shouldn't be dependent on safety cover whose extent is determined by the number volunteers willing and able to pay the cost of travelling here. It's not like buying a tank of petrol to go to Silverstone or Donington for the weekend, is it? That's the kind of thing we need to address. Riders in particular need to KNOW that the safety cover is in place, regardless of the personal financial situation of hundreds of nameless (and largely unthanked) volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 More people are killed per space shuttle launch than in any TT year!!!!! (Probably not true but seeing as daft remarks are the order of the day from the Pro-TT front...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Probably a stupid question and been answered/raised elsewhere but shouldn't those taking part in any sort of dangerous sporting activity be covered by tonnes of insurance to cover them in the event of an accident or is this sort of thing optional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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