Baby Peter Connelly

[La_Dolce_Vita]

One simple question, to bring things back to Baby Peter.

 

How do you think, had he survived the years of torture, he would have turned out?

 

Would that little boy have turned into a clone of his persecutors?

 

That's what we need to stop, at the very root, don't we? Before his life is broken and he, in his turn, breaks other lives.

 

Punishing 20+ years down the line, although necessary, benefits no-one.

 

Yeah I see what you mean. Might be possible to reduce the incidence of future child abuse. Can't see such a singular focus working. How do you think it might be possible?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Structured anarchy with somebody deciding who poses a risk ? Interesting definition of anarchy that one .

A secure unit in which somebody is imprisoned that isn't a jail ? Other than secure psychiatric units I can't really see the difference between secure unit and jail .

 

It would be ridiculous to argue that all authoritative structures have to be done away with in any anarchist society. How would you deal with those who, for example, are psychopathic if you don't have the authority to separate them from society?

I was talking about about a secure psychiatric unit.

 

I'm not saying that morality on its own makes up human nature I suggested that animal instincts coupled with morals would be my definition of human nature . Why is it relevant here ? Society in general finds infanticide utterly abhorrent yet here we have 3 individuals that went totally the other way so it was something within in them from the start hence my earlier mention of Himmler and the reference his own father made to him being born criminal . It was in their nature . Society or circumstance may act as a trigger but I don't think it can be blamed .

 

You think these 3 people had something innate wrong with them that led to commit these crimes? I am sceptical of that idea. And the idea of it being 'in their nature' seems very wishy washy. Their morality is largely learned from others in society. I don't think their actions can be reduced down to reasons of animal instincts. If that is what you mean.

[gazza]

One simple question, to bring things back to Baby Peter.

 

How do you think, had he survived the years of torture, he would have turned out?

 

Would that little boy have turned into a clone of his persecutors?

 

That's what we need to stop, at the very root, don't we? Before his life is broken and he, in his turn, breaks other lives.

 

Punishing 20+ years down the line, although necessary, benefits no-one.

 

Yeah I see what you mean. Might be possible to reduce the incidence of future child abuse. Can't see such a singular focus working. How do you think it might be possible?

 

i bet if u start cutting the balls of men that did it,

would have a knock on affect to some ppl not to do it

[manshimajin]

Reading about these dreadful people and the terror they inflicted on baby Peter and others in their life, I despair.

 

What on earth are we doing by allowing these situations to continue?

 

Why can't we change things so that children are really protected and their welfare always comes first?

 

What ideas does anyone have to change things?

I hate to say this because it is a horrible thought, BUT, this sort of unspeakable minority behaviour has always happened and, very sadly, it will always happen.

 

I don't know in this case but did the neighbours report the parents? Did anybody in their circle of friends report them? Did any shopkeeper notice anything wrong? Did any of their relatives report them etc etc...?

 

There is no way to stop it other than having constant monitoring of every parent's behaviour, which is impractical. These days we expect public servants to somehow step in on behalf of 'society' if anything goes wrong and blame them if it does - IMO this allows people to absolve themselves of responsibility - 'it's someone else's problem'. Throughout my lifetime I have read about situations that have slipped through the net - this is one - and horrible though it is there will be others.

[Albert Tatlock]

I hate to say this because it is a horrible thought, BUT, this sort of unspeakable minority behaviour has always happened and, very sadly, it will always happen.

 

I don't know in this case but did the neighbours report the parents? Did anybody in their circle of friends report them? Did any shopkeeper notice anything wrong? Did any of their relatives report them etc etc...?

 

There is no way to stop it other than having constant monitoring of every parent's behaviour, which is impractical. These days we expect public servants to somehow step in on behalf of 'society' if anything goes wrong and blame them if it does - IMO this allows people to absolve themselves of responsibility - 'it's someone else's problem'. Throughout my lifetime I have read about situations that have slipped through the net - this is one - and horrible though it is there will be others.

Good summary there.

 

The way to look at it I think is that there will always be that minority there, and some atrocities will still occur - but just think what things would be like without these organisations. People who do this sort of thing are psycopathic, and look how long it takes the cops to catch some of them types, even when their crimes are very public.

 

Improvements can always be made, but 'the system' will never be 100% foolproof.

 

Has to be said - but outrage levels in the UK also depend on colour and race it seems. Little attention is being paid to the 90 trafficked chinese children (and many others) who have 'dissapeared' from the British care system recently.

 

...that's just as disgusting IMO - and something that needs to be urgently put right.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Has to be said - but outrage levels in the UK also depend on colour and race it seems. Little attention is being paid to the 90 trafficked chinese children (and many others) who have 'dissapeared' from the British care system recently.

 

...that's just as disgusting IMO - and something that needs to be urgently put right.

 

I read about the child sex trade in the papers today, it is shocking how much of it goes on in the United Kingdom.