KSF Megathread 2

[ThankU]

Bellyup,does this help anyone, UK want their money back so whats the situation over the islands money.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-0...tor-accord.html

[bellyup]

Bellyup,does this help anyone, UK want their money back so whats the situation over the islands money.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-0...tor-accord.html

 

THank you for the link

I dont know if the IOM has put in any representation to Iceland or not.

The depositors have claimed under the Parental Guarantee both independently and through the liquidators of the bank i dont know why there are billionaire Icelandic business men out there who have got away with swindling innocent people its so wrong.

All I know is that I and many like me have to date received only 40% of our life savings and it will be years before we recover the rest - if ever and we are alone out there no one is in our corner.

 

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle6977039.ece

[bellyup]

News from the Liquidators indicates that depositors may now recover 90% of their deposits eventually.

 

This leaves a short fall of 10% plus loss of interest for years and the decrease in value of sterling over the years.

[When Skies Are Grey]

So if you had your money in for a year at 7% before the collapse, and are getting back 90%, then its not that bad in the end then is it.

 

[bellyup]

So if you had your money in for a year at 7% before the collapse, and are getting back 90%, then its not that bad in the end then is it.

 

 

I dont know how you work that out. You would only get the interest if it is capitalized. Any interest owing ie if your account had not matured is lost.

So if you had your money in for 11months and 29 days and it was due to mature on the 8th October you would have lost that year.

 

Perhaps you ought to ask people who sold their houses - and this includes people who live - or at least lived on the IOM and just put the money on deposit until they exchanged on another.

 

These people have lost everything because as with many people their house is their main asset.

 

So if they sold their house for 150k they will have to date received 60k back .

 

What can anyone buy for 60k and as these are elderly retired people they cant get a mortgage.

 

Not really very funny for them is it?

[MilitantDogOwner]

What can anyone buy for 60k and as these are elderly retired people they cant get a mortgage.

 

Not really very funny for them is it?

 

Why not rent? Seeing as they are old and not long for shuffling off the mortal coil, renting sounds like a sensible option. And with 60k in your back pocket a deposit wouldn't be that much hassle.

[When Skies Are Grey]

So if you had your money in for a year at 7% before the collapse, and are getting back 90%, then its not that bad in the end then is it.

 

 

I dont know how you work that out.

 

Dear lord man lighten up...the post wasnt intended as a mathmetical lesson.

 

And let's not believe that all the investors are retired old grannies who fought in the war for our independence etc etc.....

[triskelion]

This leaves a short fall of 10% plus loss of interest for years and the decrease in value of sterling over the years.

Milking it a bit here - inflation and the value of the sterling would have happened whether KSF had failed or not so you can't really argue that as a kind of exceptional hardship. Furthermore, as an ex-pat you no doubt considered the currency risk when you decided to keep your savings in sterling rather than your new local currency.

[Chinahand]

I'm not certain that this article belongs here, but didn't think it warranted a thread all of its own. It has some resonances with the "Global Collapse Imminent...what Happens On The Iom?" thread over in General Chat, but it also has lots to do with KSF, so I'll put it here.

 

The Island HAS weathered the strom reasonably well so far - but what the big countries are doing to Iceland should send a very real shiver down the backs of everyone on the Island, and especially the MHKs.

 

The UK Chancellor's jibes about a Tax Haven in the Irish Sea and the ending of reciprocal agreements, VAT etc aren't anything to the demands being put on the Iclandic people.

 

Anyone know what the ratio of our bank's debts to Manx GDP is?

 

And what our obligations are under the Bank Deposit Protection Scheme - all I know is that the government HAS passed legislation which does make us liable for a failed bank once the insurance scheme has been emptied.

 

Iceland seems not to have been so explicit - but are now been put into the debtor's prison to make them pay.

 

There but for the Grace of God goes us! The world's a risky place and I'm not sure I trust our politicians to protect us from bancrupcy for other people's recklessness.

 

No doubt Belly up will be quick to say we must all pay for his and the Banker's actions - that creates Moral Hazard, something the big powers are trying to pass onto the small ones.

 

Not nice - a real example of Real Politique if ever there was one.

 

Anyway, here's Martin Wolf's piece from the FT (touch wood not behind a subscription barrier?)

 

Iceland is famous for its sagas. But the latest one is truly dramatic: the balance sheets of its privatised financial sector grew from twice to 10 times gross domestic product, in five years. In the absence of a lender of last resort, this story had to end badly. In the panic of 2008, it did.

...

Under the European Union directive, Iceland ... had an obligation to establish a deposit insurance scheme, which it did, through a levy on those banks.

 

Since the banks had turned Iceland into a hedge fund, with massive short-term foreign currency liabilities used to finance risky long-term assets, the economy was doomed. ... with the fall in real consumption ... close to a quarter and that of domestic final demand almost 30 per cent. This is a depression. The burden of debt and loss of purchasing power are worsened by the collapse of the krona, which has lost more than half its value against the euro since July 2007.

 

So far, so bad. But, for ordinary Icelanders, it gets even worse. The British and Dutch governments take the view that the taxpayers of Iceland have a duty to refund the amount promised by Iceland’s collapsed deposit insurance fund. The total claimed by the UK is £2.35bn and by both countries together €3.9bn. The latter is now some 50 per cent of Iceland’s shrunken GDP.

 

So do the ordinary Icelandic taxpayers have a legal obligation to meet the liabilities of their collapsed deposit insurance fund? The answer to that is, to say the very least, that it seems to be very far from evident. Moreover, any British or Dutch depositors who thought their money was safe because the government of Iceland guaranteed it were mad.

 

Do Iceland’s taxpayers have a moral obligation to pay this loan? My view is: no. The delusion that finance was the path to riches was propounded by countries that should have known far better. I cannot blame Icelanders for succumbing. I certainly do not want generations of Icelanders to bear the cost.

...

Asking a people to transfer as much as 50 per cent of GDP, plus interest, via a sustained current account surplus is extraordinarily onerous.

...

Threatening such a country with destruction, as Lord Myners has done, is simply shameful. The UK and the Netherlands should stop this self-righteous bullying at once.

...

Yet they – and everybody else – must learn the really big lesson here. The combination of cross-border banking with generous guarantees to creditors is unsustainable. Taxpayers cannot be expected to write open-ended insurance on the foreign activities of their banks. It is bad enough to have to do so at home.

[pongo]

you should post that on the other thread IMO where it will get a proper viewing. This thread gets ignored because of bellyup.

[bellyup]

So if you had your money in for a year at 7% before the collapse, and are getting back 90%, then its not that bad in the end then is it.

 

 

I dont know how you work that out.

 

Dear lord man lighten up...the post wasnt intended as a mathmetical lesson.

 

And let's not believe that all the investors are retired old grannies who fought in the war for our independence etc etc.....

 

Most are elderly as most were savers with the Derbyshire Building Society that was not renown for being a super sexy risky place to save money.

I know one especial case

A lady who had worked 32 years on the IOM and sold her modest house to move to the Uk to be near her daughter .

She put the proceeds of the sale ( on advice) into KSF until the arrangements were made on her new home in the UK.

Now she has no home of her home. A poor reward fro a lifetime of work.

[bellyup]

What can anyone buy for 60k and as these are elderly retired people they cant get a mortgage.

 

Not really very funny for them is it?

 

Why not rent? Seeing as they are old and not long for shuffling off the mortal coil, renting sounds like a sensible option. And with 60k in your back pocket a deposit wouldn't be that much hassle.

 

 

Spoken with your usual compassion .

 

It may have escaped your notice but no one is giving mortgages out ( although the thieving bankers still get their bonuses)

 

Your need whats called an INCOME to get a mortgage.

 

60k is ok is you have a job and 25 years to pay off the rest houses even small flats in the UK are easily double this price.

 

Perhaps houses are cheaper on the IOM?

[bellyup]

you should post that on the other thread IMO where it will get a proper viewing. This thread gets ignored because of bellyup.

 

 

Course it does

 

13,519 veiws

[bellyup]

I'm not certain that this article belongs here, but didn't think it warranted a thread all of its own. It has some resonances with the "Global Collapse Imminent...what Happens On The Iom?" thread over in General Chat, but it also has lots to do with KSF, so I'll put it here.

 

The Island HAS weathered the strom reasonably well so far - but what the big countries are doing to Iceland should send a very real shiver down the backs of everyone on the Island, and especially the MHKs.

 

The IOM has lost the confidence of many depositors because of the KSF fiasco and the way they dealt with the depositors.

In the event the losses would have been very little for the IOM with a return of 90% it would not have been catastrophic for the Island to have come to the aid of the depositors. They could have purchased the Loan book which is largely blue chip and will pay out over the years.

Its easier for a government to take this on that private citizens - moreover the IOM has a surplus of bankers who would have no trouble managing the Loan book.

Had they done this not only would the depositors would have recovered much more of their savings quicker but the Isle of Man would have been lauded for its prompt and compassionate action and enhanced its reputation as a safe and secure place to keep your savings.

 

 

 

The UK Chancellor's jibes about a Tax Haven in the Irish Sea and the ending of reciprocal agreements, VAT etc aren't anything to the demands being put on the Iclandic people.

 

The Icelandic people must revcover the assets that their various BILLIONAIRES have stashed away on thie earnings from the savings of honest people.

Flog off the yachts and football teams and investigate where they got all their money from.

They didnt mind taking gignatic personal loans from uncscrupelous bankers.

Now let them pay back .

The Icelandic government has in a stroke reduced itself to a third world thieving economy.

 

 

 

 

And what our obligations are under the Bank Deposit Protection Scheme - all I know is that the government HAS passed legislation which does make us liable for a failed bank once the insurance scheme has been emptied.

 

The IOM is responsible through the Depositors Compensation Scheme up to 50K ( which STILL has not been paid out to some depositors ) this was the original subject of this thread. Its seems that the government were totally unprepared for the management of this scheme

Iceland seems not to have been so explicit - but are now been put into the debtor's prison to make them pay.

 

Why not ?

They were quick enough to enjoy the FRUITS of their shenanigans

Now they want to get away from it they require the IMF to bail them out ( but not to pay back what they owe)

At the end of the day, full accountability lies with Iceland - its Government of the day and the Icelandic people who elected them, thereby allowing their own bankers to run the Iceland economy into the ground, to destroy the Krónur's exchange rate and to destroy its reputation.

 

 

 

There but for the Grace of God goes us! The world's a risky place and I'm not sure I trust our politicians to protect us from bancrupcy for other people's recklessness.

 

Havent you got the FSC to be keeping an eye on these things ?

What about the recklessness of handing out banking licenses willy nilly?

 

 

No doubt Belly up will be quick to say we must all pay for his and the Banker's actions - that creates Moral Hazard, something the big powers are trying to pass onto the small ones.

 

You mean like governments who pass on their big mistakes to innocent people devastating their lives?

[jimbms]

Hehehehe found the perfect t-shirt for bellyup